The Official Forum
Page 2 of 4 1 2 34
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Last Night (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/102530-last-night.html)

just another ref Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1004416)
Saw one of my friends, a veteran, highly regarded, official, work a state tournament quarterfinal game. As a defender was reaching out to size up the opponent point guard, the defender accidentally brushed a few fingers across the point guards face. A split second went by (cue crickets). Point guard puts her hand up to her eye that was accidentally poked, in obvious pain. Only then came the whistle for the foul. I asked my friend about it afterward. He admitted that, at first, he was going to pass on the play as incidental contact, until he saw that the point guard was in pain. An advantage was certainly gained in that situation. Accidental and incidental don't mean the same thing.
Your post is valid, but not similar to the play in question. The ball was dead when the contact in question occurred. No one was put at a disadvantage.

The rule is what it is, and I suppose it was properly enforced here, but in my opinion the rule was written more with aggressive elbow type action in mind, as opposed to the reactive, reflexive grab we saw here.

Nevadaref Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1004416)
Saw one of my friends, a veteran, highly regarded, official, work a state tournament quarterfinal game. As a defender was reaching out to size up the opponent point guard, the defender accidentally brushed a few fingers across the point guards face. A split second went by (cue crickets). Point guard puts her hand up to her eye that was accidentally poked, in obvious pain. Only then came the whistle for the foul. I asked my friend about it afterward. He admitted that, at first, he was going to pass on the play as incidental contact, until he saw that the point guard was in pain. An advantage was certainly gained in that situation. Accidental and incidental don't mean the same thing.
True, and I've handled that situation the exact same way. However, I've also seen an official just halt play for an injury stoppage without assessing a foul. In his mind the contact remained incidental and unworthy of a foul despite the injury. I think that this could be a reasonable debate, if people wish to discuss it.

just another ref Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:55pm
I think one reason that this is not called a foul is because it is so often that the contact is not seen, only the player reacting to the contact. The contact itself is so often brief and minimal, but can nonetheless be debilitating, not unlike a poke in the groin area.

Accidental or not, this is a foul.

Kelvin green Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Referee (Post 1004359)
Not directed at me, but I will jump in and answer.

12:15 to go in 2nd half. Williams-Goss drives, takes 4 steps, and initiates all the contact on Pinson. The foul was called on Pinson. Why? Travel should have been called at step 3 if not step 4.

About :50 to go in the game. Meeks gets on the ground for the loose ball. His whole hand is out of bounds while ball is on his legs. Ref is right there. No call. Why?
We all miss calls. These guys are just under a lot more scrutiny. One missed OOB call does not define a game. Given the physicality of the game, missing one going to the floor is minor.

It was a physical game and they maintenance control. The teams played consistent and the officiating was consistent. Isn't that what coaches want? Consistency...

bucky Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 1004357)
....so why wouldn't we call a foul when someone accidentally grabs someone's face or neck?
Seems like an oxymoron to me. Accidentally hit a face/neck? Yes, it is possible. Grab someone's face/neck? Must be intentional.

Maybe I am getting caught in semantics but just my opinion if going by literal words.

just another ref Wed Apr 05, 2017 01:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1004444)
Seems like an oxymoron to me. Accidentally hit a face/neck? Yes, it is possible. Grab someone's face/neck? Must be intentional.

Maybe I am getting caught in semantics but just my opinion if going by literal words.
Don't overthink it. Just like in any other situation, on or off the court. You reach out to grab something, miss, and accidentally grab the wrong thing.

Adam Wed Apr 05, 2017 09:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1004444)
Seems like an oxymoron to me. Accidentally hit a face/neck? Yes, it is possible. Grab someone's face/neck? Must be intentional.

Maybe I am getting caught in semantics but just my opinion if going by literal words.
So is every hold an intentional foul?

bucky Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 1004463)
So is every hold an intentional foul?
Yes, presuming by "hold" you mean involving a grab.

Raymond Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 1004463)
So is every hold an intentional foul?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1004468)
Yes, presuming by "hold" you mean involving a grab.
You really believe every hold is intentional? So every time you blow your whistle for a hold you rule it an intentional foul?

bucky Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 1004469)
You really believe every hold is intentional? So every time you blow your whistle for a hold you rule it an intentional foul?
If the hold involved a grab, then yes.

deecee Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1004470)
If the hold involved a grab, then yes.
Instead of a graphic i'll just type it out

facepalm

Adam Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1004470)
If the hold involved a grab, then yes.
What's the difference between a hold and a grab? It seems you're trying to make a distinction here.

Rich Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 1004476)
Instead of a graphic i'll just type it out

facepalm
You're too kind.

IncorrectCall Wed Apr 05, 2017 01:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1004470)
If the hold involved a grab, then yes.

https://s13.postimg.org/kzkvs4i7r/grabhold.png

These are different things?

bucky Wed Apr 05, 2017 01:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 1004477)
What's the difference between a hold and a grab? It seems you're trying to make a distinction here.
That is what I was thinking about your line of questioning, that you are trying to make some distinction. Not sure where you are going with it.

Anyway...

Yes, there is a distinction imo. I grab is a conscious closing of the hand around something, like a wrist, jersey, etc. It can't be accidental. Are all holds grabs? No. Are all grabs hold? Yes. Some holds are too difficult to consider intentional. If someone grabs a jersey though, then it seems obvious, not only what they were doing, but also there intent. Looks as if it comes down to semantics again. Shocker.

Just my opinion.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:21pm.
Page 2 of 4 1 2 34
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1