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-   -   Duke/Carolina Back Court (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/102360-duke-carolina-back-court.html)

Nevadaref Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffM (Post 1001813)
I think it is a dribble and a backcourt violation.

Is it a dribble or interrupted dribble?
There is no player control during the latter.

I don't even think that it is a dribble per the Case Book, but that is another debate.

OKREF Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:03am

Controls ball with both feet in the FC, dribbles behind his back. One foot lands in BC, that foot then rises off of floor and he touches ball with one foot on the floor, and the foot that was in the BC is in the air. What's his location?

jTheUmp Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:12am

It's close... close enough that I'm not going to make my living making that my best call of the night. Play on.

WhistlesAndStripes Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 1001822)
Controls ball with both feet in the FC, dribbles behind his back. One foot lands in BC, that foot then rises off of floor and he touches ball with one foot on the floor, and the foot that was in the BC is in the air. What's his location?

You are where you were til you get where you're going.

OKREF Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes (Post 1001824)
You are where you were til you get where you're going.

Yes. That's why I have a BC violation.

Nevadaref Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 1001822)
Controls ball with both feet in the FC, dribbles behind his back. One foot lands in BC, that foot then rises off of floor and he touches ball with one foot on the floor, and the foot that was in the BC is in the air. What's his location?

Frontcourt.
This isn't a dribble from backcourt to frontcourt, so the 3-points rule doesn't apply. The controlling rule for player location in this case is nothing touching the backcourt means frontcourt location.

bob jenkins Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 1001825)
Yes. That's why I have a BC violation.

??

Where he was going was the FC, and he was there as soon as one foot touched it and the other was lifted from the BC (which was your previous description).

OKREF Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1001828)
Frontcourt.
This isn't a dribble from backcourt to frontcourt, so the 3-points rule doesn't apply. The controlling rule for player location in this case is nothing touching the backcourt means frontcourt location.

I know the 3 points doesn't apply. I think you just changed my mind.

BryanV21 Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:09pm

Is it safe to say that if you rule the initial touch as the beginning of a dribble then it's a BC? If the initial touch is not the start of a dribble then it's nothing?

bob jenkins Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 1001832)
Is it safe to say that if you rule the initial touch as the beginning of a dribble then it's a BC? If the initial touch is not the start of a dribble then it's nothing?

A player who touches a boundary line while dribbling has caused the ball to go OOB, even if the ball isn't touched at the same time as the line.

No such rule / statement exists for the division line.

JRutledge Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1001834)
A player who touches a boundary line while dribbling has caused the ball to go OOB, even if the ball isn't touched at the same time as the line.

No such rule / statement exists for the division line.

I would agree that there is no rule, but if a player is dribbling the ball in the FC, then I would suggest that if they touch the division line they have gone into the BC by rule. We could suggest there is no rule when it applies to touching the lane either in this specific case, but that to me would be a stretch. So in this case if the player was in a dribble and touched the BC, I would have a violation. But I think the specifics of that are not clear based on the video.

Peace

JeffM Tue Mar 07, 2017 01:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1001817)
Is it a dribble or interrupted dribble?
There is no player control during the latter.

I don't even think that it is a dribble per the Case Book, but that is another debate.

I can see where it could be judged an interrupted dribble.

I think it was a dribble. He pushed the ball to the floor with one hand and behind his back so the ball would be just where he knew it would be when the ball returned from the floor and he returned from having one foot in the backcourt. I think he had control of the ball when he pushed it to the floor.

Old Man Ref Tue Mar 07, 2017 01:57pm

I woudn't have called a backcourt violation but the travel ....
 
right after the UNC player regains control and passes the ball, there appears to be a travel violation not called.

Camron Rust Tue Mar 07, 2017 01:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffM (Post 1001848)
I can see where it could be judged an interrupted dribble.

I think it was a dribble. He pushed the ball to the floor with one hand and behind his back so the ball would be just where he knew it would be when the ball returned from the floor and he returned from having one foot in the backcourt. I think he had control of the ball when he pushed it to the floor.

I do not think that an interrupted dribble is an option. To have an interrupted dribble, there has to be a dribble to start with. Either that first push down is a dribble (it came right back to him so it isn't interrupted) or it isn't a dribble at all (nothing to be interrupted).

nolanjj68 Tue Mar 07, 2017 02:48pm

After reviewing it further I think I am changing my mind and saying not a backcourt violation. After watching it about 5 more times, it looks like the UNC player gains control in the front court after lifting his foot up from the backcourt, while his other foot is in the front court.


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