Purdue - IU Blarge

[Rich]

The C had the best look and made the right call. Full stop.

[deecee]

by rule you have a double foul. It's very clear and is only really applicable if both parties have a preliminary. The L should have had second crack as this was the C's call the whole way.

[RefCT]

Should they have counted the basket? In NF, you count the basket if successful on a blarge. Not sure of the NCAAM rule-set.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall in the huddle/post game. L looked pretty heated, enough that it appeared T went to him to calm him down.

I saw that too. Pretty funny actually.

[RefCT]

Sigh....the BTN says they were both ejected after the play because of their 5th foul. I wish the Network could get the terminology right. Ejection vs DQ are two different things...

Swanigan, Bryant Ejected After Double Foul - BTN

Originally Posted by RefCT

Should they have counted the basket? In NF, you count the basket if successful on a blarge. Not sure of the NCAAM rule-set.

Wait. You cannot score a basket with an offensive foul by the shooter under either NFHS or NCAA-M rules, even if the ball has been released before contact. Why would this change if a double foul is ruled? The offensive part of the double foul negates any basket that could be made.

The key is what the POI is....if the ball has been released then you go to the arrow because no team control. If the ball has not be released then you give the ball OOB to the team who had it in possession, in this case Indiana.

[RefCT]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Wait. You cannot score a basket with an offensive foul by the shooter under either NFHS or NCAA-M rules, even if the ball has been released before contact. Why would this change if a double foul is ruled? The offensive part of the double foul negates any basket that could be made.

That is not the case for a blarge - see (as it was in 2012-2013, which is what I have at work) case play 4.19.8 Situation C. RULING: Even though Airborne shooter A1 has committed a charging foul, it is not a PC foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul. The double foul does not cause the ball to become dead on the try. In (a), the goal is scored and play is resumed at the POI, which is a throw-in for Team B from anywhere along the end line.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by RefCT

That is not the case for a blarge - see (as it was in 2012-2013, which is what I have at work) case play 4.19.8 Situation C. RULING: Even though Airborne shooter A1 has committed a charging foul, it is not a PC foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul. The double foul does not cause the ball to become dead on the try. In (a), the goal is scored and play is resumed at the POI, which is a throw-in for Team B from anywhere along the end line.

Dang it you beat me to it...GJ

[RefCT]

Originally Posted by BigT

Dang it you beat me to it...GJ

I am very rarely correct on the forum, but I knew I was correct because I remember reading this years ago and saying "that's weird".

I was wondering what the ruling is under the NCAAM rule set.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Wait. You cannot score a basket with an offensive foul by the shooter under either NFHS or NCAA-M rules, even if the ball has been released before contact. Why would this change if a double foul is ruled? The offensive part of the double foul negates any basket that could be made.

The key is what the POI is....if the ball has been released then you go to the arrow because no team control. If the ball has not be released then you give the ball OOB to the team who had it in possession, in this case Indiana.

Because them's the rules. It's a double foul, not a combination of a player control foul and a block.

(Edit: I've been beaten to this multiple times. What I get for filling my coffee, I suppose.)

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

For NFHS can one of us "pick up our flag" and defer to the other?

Yes, one can, and should, in my opinion. Most disagree. Consult your local listings.

[RefCT]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Yes, one can, and should, in my opinion. Most disagree. Consult your local listings.

We had a blarge in a state final a couple years ago. Personally, I think CT being a 2-person state and then going to 3-person for the state quarters and up helped cause it. Regardless, Peter Webb comes to our finals and evaluates the officials, providing feedback. You can be darn sure this adjudicated as a double foul.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Who's call should this be? Shouldn't the C wait on this? For NFHS can one of us "pick up our flag" and defer to the other?

No, you cannot pick one over the other. Sorry, but that poster that keeps telling everyone you can, does not seem to recognize that every single time this is brought up, this is the standard in the current book and I have never heard anyone from the NF contradict this position. Unfortunately at this moment, you cannot choose once you signal. This is why you do not signal at all in a double whistle situation in a hurry.

4.19.8. Situation C:

A1 drives for a try and jumps and releases the ball. Contact occurs between A1 and B1 after the release and before airborne shooter A1 returns on foot to the floor. One officials rules a blocking foul on B1 and the other official rules a charging foul on A1. The try is is (a) successful or (b) not successful.

Ruling: Even thought airborne shooter A1 committed a charging foul, it is not a player control foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul. The double foul does not cause the ball to become dead on the try. In (a), the goal is scored; play is resumed at the point of interruption, which is a throw-in for Team B from anywhere along the end line. In (b), the point of interruption is a try in flight; therefore the alternating-possession procedure is used (4-36)

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by RefCT

That is not the case for a blarge - see (as it was in 2012-2013, which is what I have at work) case play 4.19.8 Situation C. RULING: Even though Airborne shooter A1 has committed a charging foul, it is not a PC foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul. The double foul does not cause the ball to become dead on the try. In (a), the goal is scored and play is resumed at the POI, which is a throw-in for Team B from anywhere along the end line.

Hasn't the ball been released in that case play? (I don't have the books handy).

We did go round-an-round on this when a double foul became POI (many years ago). If it's before the try -- team in control. If it's after the release -- count the basket (or arrow if the try is unsuccessful). If it's during the try (before the release) -- ?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Hasn't the ball been released in that case play? (I don't have the books handy).

We did go round-an-round on this when a double foul became POI (many years ago). If it's before the try -- team in control. If it's after the release -- count the basket (or arrow if the try is unsuccessful). If it's during the try (before the release) -- ?

If it's before the release, it's in player control, therefore team control, right?

Then it's a double foul and A gets the ball back POI.