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-   -   Duke @ Notre Dame Plays (Video) (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/102193-duke-notre-dame-plays-video.html)

BigCat Thu Feb 02, 2017 02:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 999111)
"Immediate whistles on the perimeter shots, patient whistles on drives to the basket" as a general guideline.

I would venture to say this official reviewed the video and wishes he would have counted this basket. Yes, he waved it off immediately upon blowing the whistle, but that contact occurred as part of the shooting motion.

I thought that originally but if you look at the first 8 seconds I think u can see he was calling foul before any shooting motion. I think he called a foul when he saw it.

CJP Thu Feb 02, 2017 02:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 999098)
There is absolutely such a thing as a late whistle, in relation to whistle timing. If an official wants to call this handcheck play at the elbow he needs to be much quicker with his whistle timing. Remember, quick above the FT line and slow and patient below because we have plays to the basket (such as this one).

This player already has a full head of steam and is well in motion to the basket by the time he gets to the FT line, thus the official should be patient and either no call the made layup or come in with an and-1.

Additionally, given the time and score the official should absolutely have a later whistle cadence to be awarding shots on this play. Don't look for reasons to not award Free Throws.

On the flip side, don't look for reasons to award free throws either. Call it the way you see it. Eliminate any judgement when you can. If you are looking for reasons to do things then you are using too much judgement.

Welpe Thu Feb 02, 2017 03:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 999037)
I never want to have 7 games in week.

The most I've worked in one week this year was 6 and that was during tournament time. I prefer less.

Bob Bball Thu Feb 02, 2017 03:37pm

Wow, you guys go to extremes. "The Knicks" That is a blast from the past!

The right call, at the right time, for the right reason! Adds to the game and officials who can do this are very valuable and work the the important games.

Officials who apply all the rules only by the book stay home on Saturday night.

Knowing and applying the rules to fit the game, is where the Art of Officiating begins.

Blowing the whistle because the book says so, shows you can read, it does not show you have the skill or talent to be an artist(official).

Was the call right by the book? Certainly.
Was it at the right time - player driving below the foul line going to shoot, NO it was not.
Was it for the right reason? By the book sure, in any comman sense why in what players were doing, NO.

I just happen to think there is value in applying the rules to fit the game. some of you think the value is in the rules, not there application and that is OK.

Adam Thu Feb 02, 2017 03:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJP (Post 999114)
On the flip side, don't look for reasons to award free throws either. Call it the way you see it. Eliminate any judgement when you can. If you are looking for reasons to do things then you are using too much judgement.

Hmm. No way to eliminate judgment on these plays.

CJP Thu Feb 02, 2017 03:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Bball (Post 999120)
Wow, you guys go to extremes. "The Knicks" That is a blast from the past!

The right call, at the right time, for the right reason! Adds to the game and officials who can do this are very valuable and work the the important games.

Officials who apply all the rules only by the book stay home on Saturday night.

Knowing and applying the rules to fit the game, is where the Art of Officiating begins.

Blowing the whistle because the book says so, shows you can read, it does not show you have the skill or talent to be an artist(official).

Was the call right by the book? Certainly.
Was it at the right time - player driving below the foul line going to shoot, NO it was not.
Was it for the right reason? By the book sure, in any comman sense why in what players were doing, NO.

I just happen to think there is value in applying the rules to fit the game. some of you think the value is in the rules, not there application and that is OK.

Like I said, eliminate judgement when you can. The best officials find balance between calling it by the book and adapting to the style of play. No doubt. Putting my personal belief of not awarding enough free throws and going looking for those types of fouls is not my style. The play we are debating is not even that bad; the T.V. commentator makes it worse than it really is. The biggest thing here is that a foul was called.

CJP Thu Feb 02, 2017 03:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 999121)
Hmm. No way to eliminate judgment on these plays.

Sure there is. If you seen it before the shot then stick to that. Don't say to yourself "this guy needs to be awarded free throws". Just get the foul and move on.

Rich Thu Feb 02, 2017 03:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Bball (Post 999120)
Wow, you guys go to extremes. "The Knicks" That is a blast from the past!

The right call, at the right time, for the right reason! Adds to the game and officials who can do this are very valuable and work the the important games.

Officials who apply all the rules only by the book stay home on Saturday night.

Knowing and applying the rules to fit the game, is where the Art of Officiating begins.

Blowing the whistle because the book says so, shows you can read, it does not show you have the skill or talent to be an artist(official).

Was the call right by the book? Certainly.
Was it at the right time - player driving below the foul line going to shoot, NO it was not.
Was it for the right reason? By the book sure, in any comman sense why in what players were doing, NO.

I just happen to think there is value in applying the rules to fit the game. some of you think the value is in the rules, not there application and that is OK.

Oh, BS.

The powers that be have told the officials at the HS and college level to take the art out of certain calls. Two hands on the ball handler is one of those.

You can either do what you're told or not.

You gotta be an artist and a scientist.

Bob Bball Thu Feb 02, 2017 04:15pm

no not BS! watch games on Saturday and see if every situation is called by the book!

Do not always believe the powers to be! It may limit your ability to do the job!

Apply the rules fairly, consistently and in a fashion that fits the game.

Lighten up, the rules set out the guide lines and structure to the game. The interpretation and application of them make the game.

JRutledge Thu Feb 02, 2017 05:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Bball (Post 999125)
no not BS! watch games on Saturday and see if every situation is called by the book!

Do not always believe the powers to be! It may limit your ability to do the job!

Apply the rules fairly, consistently and in a fashion that fits the game.

Lighten up, the rules set out the guide lines and structure to the game. The interpretation and application of them make the game.

You obviously did not pay attention to what was said. No one said call it totally by the book. And you do not have to believe the powers that be, but the powers that be decide who works what in the post season. That often is who ultimately decides what we do. At that time it is JD Collins. And JD Collins is telling what should be done. And yes, they are calling the game differently since John Adams and now JD Collins are in power. The evidence is who gets post season and who does not. Many of the "old timers" that never got on board are no longer a factor for post season assignments.

Peace

Adam Thu Feb 02, 2017 06:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJP (Post 999123)
Sure there is. If you seen it before the shot then stick to that. Don't say to yourself "this guy needs to be awarded free throws". Just get the foul and move on.

You're talking about personal preference, not judgment. We use judgment to determine whether the contact is even a foul. Then we use judgment to decide if the shooting motion had begun. Then we use judgment to decide if it's an intentional foul.

You're using judgment all game long, every time there's any contact between opponents.

CJP Thu Feb 02, 2017 06:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 999133)
You're talking about personal preference, not judgment. We use judgment to determine whether the contact is even a foul. Then we use judgment to decide if the shooting motion had begun. Then we use judgment to decide if it's an intentional foul.

You're using judgment all game long, every time there's any contact between opponents.

You have to use your judgement to make a decision regarding your preference. I don't disagree that we use our judgement every time we take the floor. The more we can eliminate judgement calls, the more constant we can be and the better we become. We have to find balance. To make a considered decision that anything close is automatically going to the free throw line is not good in my opinion.

SNIPERBBB Thu Feb 02, 2017 08:00pm

Hand checking has almost vanished here since the two-hand auto's started.

deecee Fri Feb 03, 2017 07:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 999137)
Hand checking has almost vanished here since the two-hand auto's started.

Tell that to the schools by where i live :/

Raymond Fri Feb 03, 2017 09:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 999137)
Hand checking has almost vanished here since the two-hand auto's started.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 999147)
Tell that to the schools by where i live :/

I hear a lot of coaches nowadays telling their players not to "reach" and "move your feet". The ones who give blowback do so in a purposeful attempt to test the resolve of the officials.


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