Duke @ Notre Dame Plays (Video)
Play #1:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/N3lER76GzH0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Play #2: <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ytaFbhQgVCU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Play #3: <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/D-RT2NRwWxQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Peace |
First of all, Dakich is an ******* and a moron!!
Secondly, thanks for posting my bluedevils. Play 1, to me, was clearly PC. Like 100%. Play 2: depends on which foul was being called. There is a bump as ball handler makes the curl. He gets fouled again after the gather. No shot on first foul, in the act on the 2nd. |
1. Charge
2. Continuous motion |
Re. the first video. This is especially applicable on the high school level. Those working on and assessing those on the NCAA level may have differing opinions.
When an official's first impulsive movement in immediate reaction to a play like this is two fists rising from the hips, there's only one call that's gonna result. Most who start with two fists rising default to a block because of the early initiation of what will become the later fist-banging-on-the-hips signal, regardless whether it was actually a charge or not. At least on the high school level, that seems to be true. Further reason why to insist upon the approved mechanic of a single fist in the air first, then go to the foul signal. Anybody else find this is true? (Come to think about it, JD Collins insisted upon that very same thing to his NCAA-M officials this preseason, didn't he?) |
Play 1. Easy PC
Play 2. No shot. Very patient whistle. Play 3. I see two hands on the back as the inside player is gathering himself to go up. Correct call in my opinion. |
Play 1: Easy PC
Play 2: Shooting, correct tech though Play 3: No foul |
1. PC
2. Shooting 3. Nothing |
I guess I missed the 3rd video.
No foul in that video. Was not a rebounding push. |
1. is a PC 100% of the time. That shouldn't be missed at this level or even in HS. Heck, he was even "set" ;)
2. If the call was on the bump at the elbow that was one really late whistle. That looks like a shooting foul to me and I can't blame the coach for reacting the way he did. 3. No foul, but I'm sure it looked like one from the T's angle, but that is all the more reason he shouldn't make that call. |
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LATE WHISTLE!
My God, I can't BELIEVE there are officials saying this. I expect it from clueless coaches, but not from officials who, supposedly, know better. Look at the trail -- he's ALREADY waving off the shot as the player finishes. It's obvious that he called it on the curl and had no intention of awarding shots here. #3 -- If the T is calling a hold/push to keep the player down, I don't hate the call. I don't particularly like it, either. |
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1. PC 2. Would have been continuous motion, but the player traveled. So, no basket, award two shots. 3. Hold on blue / black. |
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1. PC
2. Foul by the book, sure. A good call with player driving getting below foul line with limited contact not having any effect on ball handler. No, this is not a good call at this spot on the floor. He should have let the play develop and finish! 3. no foul |
#1: speaks for itself
#2: I don't see anything prior to the shooting motion #3: Not a whistle that official should have had from that position on the floor. He was already high in the Trail, then missed the rotation. Old Center/New Trail was still in position to see that rebounding action, as was the Lead after his rotation. |
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#3 - I think the old C has the better look through the two players and his trigger wasn't tripped. |
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And on 3, I wasn't clear what I meant, I understand that is T's call, but in this particular case the T was at a bad angle and was pretty deep, and he probably guessed there was a push, so he should just hold off on that call. |
On play #2.........If you slow it down you can see it is a 10-1-4 foul before the ball is gathered. Yes, I had to slow it down to see that and typically if you have to slow it down either call is supported at live game speed. The player has his right forearm on the players side and left hand on his shoulder as he turns the corner. The official had a patient whistle but he also needs time to process it. IMO either call was supported when the observer broke down the play.
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And on #3, I would categorize that as a hold moreso than a push. |
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(In soccer, if we were waiting we would call the more serious offense -- the later foul on the shot. But this ain't soccer . . . ) |
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Lots of coaches are faster than me when identifying travels or fouls, but I have to actually be right -- and that means that all plays deserve that extra processing time. |
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On 3 right or wrong if he doesn't have his hands on his back he doesn't get called for the foul. He put the official into a bad spot. |
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It's not that he's seeing the contact, processing it, deciding it's a foul, and then waiting some more... It's that he's waiting until he's processed what he has seen, and then calling it. |
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"Watching, watching, 2 hands, that's a foul, WHISTLE." It wasn't that long. |
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My mistake I will give back my 7 games I have yet this week. |
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The only reason I said, "if you are an official" is that I don't know you and you might not have been one - a coach or fan could have asked that question. That said ... since you've been on the court, I'm not following why you didn't understand what Rich was saying. |
Big Boys
These officials are big boys in a big league. hey did not get here without making mistakes and learning from them.
I would think once they sat down talked , saw the video, they would admit that the calls were suspect at best, and survive through a learning situation. One of the good things about officiating, you learn in every game! |
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I observed instead of working Monday and I might do the same tomorrow if I can get someone to take my place. |
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Wisconsin right? Pay me mileage and I'll be there. |
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Peace |
1. PC . . . What else does a guy have to do.
2. Would I like a patient whistle hear, probably. Is there contact with thr arms before any motion starts, I guess. Big problem here is that if the level of contact that gets you to call that foul before the shooting motion starts is the standard now. . . Well lots of guys without scholarships are going to be seeing the floor. 3. I think it's technically a good call, for the hold down and arms in the back, but it's not gotten a lot. |
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This player already has a full head of steam and is well in motion to the basket by the time he gets to the FT line, thus the official should be patient and either no call the made layup or come in with an and-1. Additionally, given the time and score the official should absolutely have a later whistle cadence to be awarding shots on this play. Don't look for reasons to not award Free Throws. |
Is "whistle timing" new camp-speak?
Missed that one. He's visible in the frame waving off the shot as the player finishes. And 2 hands is an automatic - we don't pass on it just cause it has no effect on the play. |
two hands
Two hands is an "automatic"!
I just do not like this statement and philosophy. Contact happens in basketball: and, officials should judge what the contact does. if it alters what player is attempting to do make a call! If it does not play on! In the open court above the foul line you can make a case for a hand check with this "limited contact"? But, with offence closing on the defence, and the defence retreating below the foul line, the contact not changing what the offence was doing- leave it alone, make him a shooter! The game is more fun when we let the athletes be athletes, and, do not get in their way because something is "automatic" |
The rules makers have decided what are automatics, not me.
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There's no legitimate reason for a kid's hand to be on a dribbler....it's done to slow them or bother them. |
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Didn't this guy say he was an observer?
Just what's needed....ANOTHER observer who doesn't know or doesn't care about the rules. |
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I would venture to say this official reviewed the video and wishes he would have counted this basket. Yes, he waved it off immediately upon blowing the whistle, but that contact occurred as part of the shooting motion. |
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Wow, you guys go to extremes. "The Knicks" That is a blast from the past!
The right call, at the right time, for the right reason! Adds to the game and officials who can do this are very valuable and work the the important games. Officials who apply all the rules only by the book stay home on Saturday night. Knowing and applying the rules to fit the game, is where the Art of Officiating begins. Blowing the whistle because the book says so, shows you can read, it does not show you have the skill or talent to be an artist(official). Was the call right by the book? Certainly. Was it at the right time - player driving below the foul line going to shoot, NO it was not. Was it for the right reason? By the book sure, in any comman sense why in what players were doing, NO. I just happen to think there is value in applying the rules to fit the game. some of you think the value is in the rules, not there application and that is OK. |
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The powers that be have told the officials at the HS and college level to take the art out of certain calls. Two hands on the ball handler is one of those. You can either do what you're told or not. You gotta be an artist and a scientist. |
no not BS! watch games on Saturday and see if every situation is called by the book!
Do not always believe the powers to be! It may limit your ability to do the job! Apply the rules fairly, consistently and in a fashion that fits the game. Lighten up, the rules set out the guide lines and structure to the game. The interpretation and application of them make the game. |
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Peace |
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You're using judgment all game long, every time there's any contact between opponents. |
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Hand checking has almost vanished here since the two-hand auto's started.
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Late to the party.
Play 1- We all know this is an obvious PC. I think the value of the discussion here could be WHY a good official misses a call like this. It seems to me that the L had a bad angle as he was unable to get to the endline in transition and was fooled by the way the defender fell by turning to the side. I'm not sure what he could have done to get a better angle though. I don't know if stopping enables him to get a better look at the defender. Play 2- This is a shooting foul all day, every day. I don't care that he immediately wiped off the basket and never intended to award FTs. As much as some people want to take advantage/disadvantage out of the game I think this is an example of why its important. I don't understand penalizing the offense by wiping off the bucket here. I'd bet that after watching on tape he wishes he scored that one. Play 3- I believe NBA officials refer to this as "bracing" an opponent. The contact could have impacted the player's ability to jump but I don't think it was enough to warrant a call IMO. I don't hate the call but would lean on the side of passing on that level of contact. |
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