Whadda You Have?

[kk13]

V1 inbounds to start the second half. He throws long pass to the baseline corner to V2 who has to jump and catch the ball while in the air and because he was going out of bounds, he throws it back towards half court. The ball goes into the back court where V3 retrieves the ball. Should this be a violation?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by kk13

V1 inbounds to start the second half. He throws long pass to the baseline corner to V2 who has to jump and catch the ball while in the air and because he was going out of bounds, he throws it back towards half court. The ball goes into the back court where V3 retrieves the ball. Should this be a violation?

What do you think?

[kk13]

Full disclosure - we played on!

[deecee]

Originally Posted by kk13

Full disclosure - we played on!

Full disclosure - you messed up.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by kk13

V1 inbounds to start the second half. He throws long pass to the baseline corner to V2 who has to jump and catch the ball while in the air and because he was going out of bounds, he throws it back towards half court. The ball goes into the back court where V3 retrieves the ball. Should this be a violation?

The Rule including the Exceptions are the same, for both NFHS and NCAA are the same, but the intepretation is different for this particular play: 1) NFHS: This is a Backcourt Violation; and 2) NCAA: This is not a Backcourt Violation.

MTD, Sr.

[kk13]

Rule reference?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The Rule including the Exceptions are the same, for both NFHS and NCAA are the same, but the intepretation is different for this particular play: 1) NFHS: This is a Backcourt Violation; and 2) NCAA: This is not a Backcourt Violation.

MTD, Sr.

Mark,

Can you explain how you reach your NCAA conclusion. Thx

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Mark,

Can you explain how you reach your NCAA conclusion. Thx

One has to remember I retired from officiating college basketball after the 2007-08 season, and the difference in the application is strictly a rules interpretation made through a Casebook Play Ruling for the NFHS and an Approved Ruling for the NCAA.

I am trying to watch the Steelers game right now so I am trying to make my comments here short and sweet (right now BillyMac has felt a disturbance in the Force).

But the logic in the difference in the Rulings is the same logic with regard to the Closely Guarded Rule. The NFHS says that the five second count continues even when B2 replaces B1 during the closely guarded count against A1. Which is the opposite for the NCAA.

In both cases the Rules do not make any stated addressing either the Backcourt situation we are discussing nor the Closely Guarded situation I mentioned.

Back to the Steeler game.

MTD, Sr.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by kk13

V1 inbounds to start the second half. He throws long pass to the baseline corner to V2 who has to jump and catch the ball while in the air and because he was going out of bounds, he throws it back towards half court. The ball goes into the back court where V3 retrieves the ball. Should this be a violation?

From where did V2 jump, front court or back court?
(There are 4 baseline corners from which you throw the ball towards half court and the ball could go into the back court).

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

One has to remember I retired from officiating college basketball after the 2007-08 season, and the difference in the application is strictly a rules interpretation made through a Casebook Play Ruling for the NFHS and an Approved Ruling for the NCAA.

I am trying to watch the Steelers game right now so I am trying to make my comments here short and sweet (right now BillyMac has felt a disturbance in the Force).

But the logic in the difference in the Rulings is the same logic with regard to the Closely Guarded Rule. The NFHS says that the five second count continues even when B2 replaces B1 during the closely guarded count against A1. Which is the opposite for the NCAA.

In both cases the Rules do not make any stated addressing either the Backcourt situation we are discussing nor the Closely Guarded situation I mentioned.

Back to the Steeler game.

MTD, Sr.

Im watching the chiefs' game. When the offensive player catches the ball near the FC baseline in the air, the ball has gained FC status. Team control in FC now. (Player was last touching floor in FC so when he jumps and catches he in FC) He then throws the ball to the BC where his teammate gets it. Last to touch in FC and first to touch in BC. I think it is a violation in both rule sets. Rule 9-9 in nfhs kk13 and rule 9 ncaa. I dont think im missing anything on the NCAA ruling.....Been a long day. Maybe i am...thx

[Raymond]

It's a backcourt violation in college and high school. Hopefully Mark will come back and explain what he was trying to say when he was distracted by the Steelers.

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[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It's a backcourt violation in college and high school. Hopefully Mark will come back and explain what he was trying to say when he was distracted by the Steelers.

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Agreed.

In the time it took him to explain why he wasn't answering the request for a rules reference, he could have given one.

Also, to the OP -- note that if the ball had just been deflected into the backcourt by V2 (ignore the low probability of that happening with a throw to the corner), the play would have been legal. It's because V2 "caught and threw" the ball that this becomes a violation.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It's a backcourt violation in college and high school. Hopefully Mark will come back and explain what he was trying to say when he was distracted by the Steelers.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Mark, you declared/pontificated that this play was a BC violation in NFHS but not NCAA. You were asked to explain. For some reason you have not responded. You are never to old to learn.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The Rule including the Exceptions are the same, for both NFHS and NCAA are the same, but the intepretation is different for this particular play: 1) NFHS: This is a Backcourt Violation; and 2) NCAA: This is not a Backcourt Violation.

MTD, Sr.

Here's an NCAAW Interp that seems on-point (note that it's from 2014-2015; and the rules were revised before the next season, but I don't think the relevant rules here were):

RULE:

Rule 9.13.8 and Rule 9.13.10

QUESTION:

On a throw-in near midcourt, A1 passes to A2 who leaps from her front court catches the pass while in the air and throws to A3 who is located in the back court.

Is this a back court violation?

What rule governs this play?

ANSWER:

During the throw-in, only the player who catches the throw-in after jumping from her frontcourt and lands in the backcourt is protected from violating. In your play, had A2 landed in the backcourt, there would be no violation. Once A2 catches the throw-in, the throw-in ends. Since A2 has frontcourt status when she catches the ball and throws it into the backcourt to A3, Team A has committed a backcourt violation (9-13.4). Had A2 tipped/deflected the ball (no player control) into the backcourt, A3 would be able to catch the ball without penalty (9-13.6).

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Here's an NCAAW Interp that seems on-point (note that it's from 2014-2015; and the rules were revised before the next season, but I don't think the relevant rules here were):

RULE:

Rule 9.13.8 and Rule 9.13.10

QUESTION:

On a throw-in near midcourt, A1 passes to A2 who leaps from her front court catches the pass while in the air and throws to A3 who is located in the back court.

Is this a back court violation?

What rule governs this play?

ANSWER:

During the throw-in, only the player who catches the throw-in after jumping from her frontcourt and lands in the backcourt is protected from violating. In your play, had A2 landed in the backcourt, there would be no violation. Once A2 catches the throw-in, the throw-in ends. Since A2 has frontcourt status when she catches the ball and throws it into the backcourt to A3, Team A has committed a backcourt violation (9-13.4). Had A2 tipped/deflected the ball (no player control) into the backcourt, A3 would be able to catch the ball without penalty (9-13.6).

In OP the player throws ball to base line(end line ) corner. Player getting ball didn't jump from BC to FC etc.