Rich is right...

[packersowner]

A few months ago there was a discussion about consistent calls on both ends. I kind of recall, and he will correct me if I am wrong, Rich saying that he doesn't believe in calling the same fouls on both ends or something to the effect, call what you see.

At the time, I think my response was only to say, if we have the same exact play on one end and then have it on the other, we should have the same call.

Well last night, working a game with a partner who seemed to think that consistency on both ends, meant making sure that we call fouls on both teams so the foul count is even.

I know realize that consistency can mean different things to different people. This led to a spirited debate and the net of it all, is that I agree with Rich. Call what you see.

[BigCat]

Here's what I will tell you, be aware of what each other is calling. Calling what you see sounds nice BUT , here's a prime example:

I see travel pretty well. My regular partners don't. The euro step described by Chris Paul on u tube is travel. I can see it. I could call it. but many college partners won't. Does not do me or game any good be the only person calling it. I see it, but don't call it much in college now.

Other area, Block charge- I don't split hairs on block charge. I will lean to charge. Hard to get kids to stand in and when they do I call charge. If you have similar play at other end I'd like for you to call charge,don't split hairs. Now I also say if I blow one completely that doesn't count. I don't expect or want you to do that.

Finally, I don't worry about foul counts at all. If you have 6 fouks early and continue to foul I will call them all. Laying off calling fouks leads to clusters. Been there done that. What I will say is concentrate so if team with only one or two fouls you don't miss it. I've had coaches say fouks are 5 to 1 etc. my standard response is SO.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BigCat

...
I see travel pretty well. My regular partners don't. The euro step described by Chris Paul on u tube is travel. I can see it. I could call it. but many college partners won't. Does not do me or game any good be the only person calling it. I see it, but don't call it much in college now.

Other area, Block charge- I don't split hairs on block charge. I will lean to charge. Hard to get kids to stand in and when they do I call charge. If you have similar play at other end I'd like for you to call charge,don't split hairs. Now I also say if I blow one completely that doesn't count. I don't expect or want you to do that.
...

BC makes a great point here. Which is why it's important to discuss with your partners any close or questionable call (can be at halftime, between quarters, during timeouts, etc). That way you can get on the same page about calls and be consistent as a crew.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

BC makes a great point here. Which is why it's important to discuss with your partners any close or questionable call (can be at halftime, between quarters, during timeouts, etc). That way you can get on the same page about calls and be consistent as a crew.

I'm not kicking a block/charge just cause I have partners who do. I think officials think too much sometimes.

While we have to be consistent on levels of contact permitted, etc. I'm not thinking I have to get a charge because my partner called one. That's just idiotic.

Let me make another point on this -- as an assigner, I'm occasionally sent plays from a game. If I'm sent a block/charge play I don't give a flying fig about the past three of them. Nor will the coach/AD sending me the play.

Plays are like snowflakes. None are exactly alike.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm not kicking a block/charge just cause I have partners who do. I think officials think too much sometimes.

While we have to be consistent on levels of contact permitted, etc. I'm not thinking I have to get a charge because my partner called one. That's just idiotic.

Let me make another point on this -- as an assigner, I'm occasionally sent plays from a game. If I'm sent a block/charge play I don't give a flying fig about the past three of them. Nor will the coach/AD sending me the play.

Plays are like snowflakes. None are exactly alike.

Nobody said you make the same bad calls. In fact, BC said "now I also say if I blow one completely that doesn't count. I don't expect or want you to do that".

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm not kicking a block/charge just cause I have partners who do. I think officials think too much sometimes.

While we have to be consistent on levels of contact permitted, etc. I'm not thinking I have to get a charge because my partner called one. That's just idiotic.

Plays are like snowflakes. None are exactly alike.

Nobody wants you to kick a block/charge because I do. I don't ask partners to take that bullet. There are 50/50 calls...and you're right, if we split hairs..they are like snowflakes. None exactly the same. I'd add that people are like snowflakes. None exactly the same. If you have a 50/50 call on one
end and call block, if I have a 50/50 on the other i'm going block. I will be aware of your call.

If I know you blew the call it wouldn't enter my mind the next chance it comes up. I understand your point of view. I just choose what I've outlined. I agree with it and have heard it for a long time.

[Adam]

The biggest problem with this practice is it's best if only used by experienced officials who actually know what it means. That's not how it plays out, though. In reality, people get a hold of the theory and don't know what it means, so then they start doing stupid crap like evening up the foul count.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Finally, I don't worry about foul counts at all. If you have 6 fouks early and continue to foul I will call them all. Laying off calling fouks leads to clusters. Been there done that. What I will say is concentrate so if team with only one or two fouls you don't miss it. I've had coaches say fouks are 5 to 1 etc. my standard response is SO.

My response is, "You need to have more points than the other team to win the game, not fouks."

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

My response is, "You need to have more points than the other team to win the game, not fouks."

That works...but I like SO and standing waiting for the reply.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by packersowner

Well last night, working a game with a partner who seemed to think that consistency on both ends, meant making sure that we call fouls on both teams so the foul count is even.

This makes my brain hurt.

But I've seen games where one team was out of control, but the ref team seemed to get tired of calling them for so many fouls and let stuff go while calling pickier fouls on the other team. Utter nonsense. (And I freely admit tht the view from the stands could lead to the perception when it isn't the case, but the guys like your partner essentially admit that they do that.)

[Rich]

Why would one "discuss any close or questionable calls" though?

I'd rather spend the time talking about plays that just didn't fit the pattern of most of the otner calls. Those might not be close calls. And ones that are just kicked? We're not going to be perfect.

I've seen too many calls made because of previous calls. Ever work with someone who calls an illegal screen just because you called one at the other end?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Rich

Why would one "discuss any close or questionable calls" though?

I'd rather spend the time talking about plays that just didn't fit the pattern of most of the otner calls. Those might not be close calls. And ones that are just kicked? We're not going to be perfect.

I've seen too many calls made because of previous calls. Ever work with someone who calls an illegal screen just because you called one at the other end?

You're right. There is certainly that danger. I can see younger/less experience taking it too far. I guess as an assigner you probably see that a lot.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BigCat

You're right. There is certainly that danger. I can see younger/less experience taking it too far. I guess as an assigner you probably see that a lot.

I was sent film once that had 5 block/charge calls in a game.

All were called charges. 4 were ICs.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Rich

I was sent film once that had 5 block/charge calls in a game.

All were called charges. 4 were ICs.

I'm slow. What is ICs? Thx

[Rich]

Incorrect calls.