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-   -   dizzy score keeper (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/102081-dizzy-score-keeper.html)

bbman Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:24pm

dizzy score keeper
 
Here's how I remember the situation: (middle school game).
Scorekeeper is told by the home team(white) coach to just copy yesterdays lineup into today's score book. No problem so far.
(fyi, #1 white changed into #3w jersey w/o telling his coach before the game started).
#3w not listed in book, just #1w.
Game is started, #3w gets into the game w/o the officials being notified. #3w commits a foul, score keeper, who realizes that #3w s/b #1w, just logs the foul in #1's box in the score book. Play continues, dead ball, #3w gets replaced by #12w. After a few minutes of playing time goes by, a time out is called. During the time out, coach from blue team says # 3w was in game illegally.

Comment: It's too late to penalize. (Can penalize if & when #3w does re-enter the game).
Questions:
1. The foul that was charged to #1w, how does it get corrected in the book?
2. Can #3w go to the locker room and change to #1w?

Thanks in advance, I'll be back after I down a few Miller's.

Nevadaref Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:53am

I'm penalizing this when it is brought to my attention.
I will have the scorer correct the book to properly reflect the player's jersey number and assess the team tech.
I'm not permitting the home team to get away with an infraction because the scorer didn't do his job properly.

BillyMac Wed Jan 11, 2017 06:57am

Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 
A team shall not: After the 10-minute time limit: Require the scorer to change a team member’s or player’s number in the scorebook ... Require a player to change to the number in the scorebook. PENALTY: Penalized when they occur.

bbman Wed Jan 11, 2017 09:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 997002)
I'm penalizing this when it is brought to my attention.
I will have the scorer correct the book to properly reflect the player's jersey number and assess the team tech.
I'm not permitting the home team to get away with an infraction because the scorer didn't do his job properly.

I like this resolution.

bbman Wed Jan 11, 2017 09:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 997005)
A team shall not: After the 10-minute time limit: Require the scorer to change a team member’s or player’s number in the scorebook ... Require a player to change to the number in the scorebook. PENALTY: Penalized when they occur.

But #3 was not in the game at time we were informed of the problem.

bob jenkins Wed Jan 11, 2017 09:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbman (Post 997020)
But #3 was not in the game at time we were informed of the problem.

But #3 had committed a foul and the number had not been changed in the book. So, now it needs to be changed.

BryanV21 Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:23am

What if the player did nothing stat-wise while in the game? Still a tech? Just curious.

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scrounge Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbman (Post 997020)
But #3 was not in the game at time we were informed of the problem.

It's the requiring of a change in the book that triggered the T, so penalize when that occurred.

Adam Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 997031)
What if the player did nothing stat-wise while in the game? Still a tech? Just curious.

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In this case, he can either go to the locker room and change, or we can change the book.

Had the scorer notified us as soon as he entered the game, those are the options the coach would have been given.

MD Longhorn Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbman (Post 997020)
But #3 was not in the game at time we were informed of the problem.

The way this rule reads, it's not the timing of when they go in or out of the game that you go by. The violation that occurs is the changing of the book - that occurred when you caught it, whether the player was in the game or not.

BryanV21 Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 997041)
In this case, he can either go to the locker room and change, or we can change the book.

Had the scorer notified us as soon as he entered the game, those are the options the coach would have been given.

What if the coach says, and is true, that he never returns to the game?

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Adam Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 997043)
What if the coach says, and is true, that he never returns to the game?

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That would be the third option (I forgot about that one). If he never returns, then we never have to change the book. That's probably the option I would take as a coach. It's more likely to teach the kid a lesson if he can't play.

MD Longhorn Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 997043)
What if the coach says, and is true, that he never returns to the game?

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In the case of the OP, his return to the game is irrelevant. The change in the book is the violation. He has participated using a number not in the book, and the book must be changed to reflect that.

MD Longhorn Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 997041)
In this case, he can either go to the locker room and change, or we can change the book.

I disagree. The book is currently wrong. It must be changed. The violation has occurred.

I would even submit that if he goes to the locker room and changes numbers, he's committed a SECOND violation.

Adam Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 997046)
I disagree. The book is currently wrong. It must be changed. The violation has occurred.

I would even submit that if he goes to the locker room and changes numbers, he's committed a SECOND violation.

Well, if you penalize the first, there's no further penalty for the 2nd. My understanding of the case play is that the NFHS makes us make the change if the player has created an official stat that must be entered in the book (foul or points). Otherwise, once the player has gone to the bench they don't have to make the change if he stays on the bench (or he could simply go to the locker room and put on the right number).

I could be wrong, though. That's just my read of the case play and that's how I would handle it in the game, unless I get convinced otherwise.


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