Chain Reaction Foul #2

[kelvinsmerli]

A lot of knowledge gained here. Thanks. Foul on B2. Hard shove by B3 Unsporting T.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by kelvinsmerli

A lot of knowledge gained here. Thanks. Foul on B2. Hard shove by B3 Unsporting T.

Honestly, this will be a once-in-a-career call if you call a T on B3 here. The play in the OP could happen several times, however, and the right call will just be the foul on B2. If the T on B3 is warranted, it will be glaringly obvious and will practically call itself.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Adam

Honestly, this will be a once-in-a-career call if you call a T on B3 here. The play in the OP could happen several times, however, and the right call will just be the foul on B2. If the T on B3 is warranted, it will be glaringly obvious and will practically call itself.

I agree completely.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by Adam

Honestly, this will be a once-in-a-career call if you call a T on B3 here. The play in the OP could happen several times, however, and the right call will just be the foul on B2. If the T on B3 is warranted, it will be glaringly obvious and will practically call itself.

^^^^
As referees*, we often discuss extreme scenarios to test our understanding of rules and what they really mean. Sometimes those discussions can aid in a broad understanding of how rules fit together. But it is critical to remember that it is an extremely unlikely scenario being discussed -- not a situation to look for but one that it may be helpful to have pondered when that (or another) really bizarre situation occurs and we are thinking what the @#$# just happened and what now?!? but we don't want to be the ref looking for a situation to show we have a clever solution.

__________
*As I've noted before, I'm a serious soccer ref with very limited, low level BB ref experience many years ago. The more BB games I watch and the more I read here the more I think I may do BB when my kid is done playing.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

^^^^
As referees*, we often discuss extreme scenarios to test our understanding of rules and what they really mean. Sometimes those discussions can aid in a broad understanding of how rules fit together. But it is critical to remember that it is an extremely unlikely scenario being discussed -- not a situation to look for but one that it may be helpful to have pondered when that (or another) really bizarre situation occurs and we are thinking what the @#$# just happened and what now?!? but we don't want to be the ref looking for a situation to show we have a clever solution.

Exactly, we're going to have enough shit find us, we don't need to go looking for it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kelvinsmerli

A lot of knowledge gained here. Thanks. Foul on B2. Hard shove by B3 Unsporting T.

Please don't. If you see a purposeful push from a teammate that results in serious contact with an opponent, then please let us all know when that happens. Sometime tells me you might have other problems than just wanting to T someone on the court. Like you might have teammates fighting and have to deal with that. There is also no rules support for such a thing, because it is not going to likely ever happen. And it is not likely going to happen because what benefit would it be for a player to do this on purpose. But again, we are on the internet, so someone has to make something like this relevant in a reasonable discussion about a play that is also very unlikely.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by kelvinsmerli

A lot of knowledge gained here. Thanks. Foul on B2. Hard shove by B3 Unsporting T.

Hard shove should not do it here.

The T is there for you if you need it... but to consider that, we really need to be talking about a "Holy crap, what did I just see" moment. Like said above, a once-in-a-career moment.

[Pantherdreams]

Thread has gotten more interesting than I would have thought.

Adjustment to the OP:

B3 shoves (not hard or deliberate) A2 on the way to the shooter A1. A1 is hit by A2 in the act of shooting.

Just so we are on the same page. The foul is on B3 but it isn't a shooting foul because B3 fouled A2. So it is on the floor and we have A's ball OOB unless bonus is in play.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Thread has gotten more interesting than I would have thought.

Adjustment to the OP:

B3 shoves (not hard or deliberate) A2 on the way to the shooter A1. A1 is hit by A2 in the act of shooting.

Just so we are on the same page. The foul is on B3 but it isn't a shooting foul because B3 fouled A2. So it is on the floor and we have A's ball OOB unless bonus is in play.

In this play, there are a few things to consider.

First, I'm giving A2 a lot of benefit of the doubt on whether the try had started so I can count the basket if it goes in.

I'm also thinking long and hard about an intentional foul unless B3 trips or something and it's purely accidental.

Ideally, the basket goes in and we penalize the foul accordingly.