Purdue-Ohio State block/charge (C's whistle too quick?)

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Here is the play.



This needs to be called. I see no reason the C would not make a call on this and IMO this is more his play. So no, I do not feel he is too quick. But they got together. I just feel it was wrong. I do not see what the defender did wrong. He was there before the player left the floor.

Peace

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

They were probably looking at that left leg dragging over after the initial set.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And still sliding over after the shooter left the floor....along with the torso shifting with it. If he hadn't still be moving sideways after the shooter left the floor, the contact may have not occurred or, more likely, not been as substantial. Thus, it was/is a block.

Originally Posted by AremRed

Yup, that's what I have.

Originally Posted by rsl

Plus, the legs extend well beyond the shoulders and there is
leg contact with the shooter outside the torso. Clear block for me.

Jeff and I are on the same page here. Furthermore, all of the Defender's movement after he established a LGP is within his Cylinder of Verticality.

MTD, Sr.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Jeff and I are on the same page here. Furthermore, all of the Defender's movement after he established a LGP is within his Cylinder of Verticality.

MTD, Sr.

Since when is sideways movement considered part of verticality?

[dahoopref]

Another good play for discussion.

P#31 was a secondary defender during OSU#3's outnumbered fastbreak drive to the basket.

IMO, P#31 moved laterally when OSU#3 was airborne and the contact occurred.

From the 2016-17 NCAA Men's Rulebook:

Rule 4, Section 17. Guarding

Art. 6. To maintain a legal guarding position after the initial position has
been established, the guard:

e. May move laterally or obliquely to maintain position provided such a
move is not toward the opponent when contact occurs; Exception: A
secondary defender who has established initial legal guarding position on
an airborne shooter/passer may not move laterally or obliquely to maintain
legal guarding position. The secondary defender in this position may remain
stationary or may move backwards.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

Another good play for discussion.

P#31 was a secondary defender during OSU#3's outnumbered fastbreak drive to the basket.

IMO, P#31 moved laterally when OSU#3 was airborne and the contact occurred.

From the 2016-17 NCAA Men's Rulebook:

Question: How,when or at what point would you determine #31 to be the secondary defender? When the video begins, the dribbler has already passed #12 from Purdue just outside of the 3 pt. arc. From that point, it appears the play is just the dribbler vs. #31. Not necessarily questioning your statement. I just am not sure. Could #31 be considered the primary defender in this specific play?

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Question: How,when or at what point would you determine #31 to be the secondary defender? When the video begins, the dribbler has already passed #12 from Purdue just outside of the 3 pt. arc. From that point, it appears the play is just the dribbler vs. #31. Not necessarily questioning your statement. I just am not sure. Could #31 be considered the primary defender in this specific play?

Good question. If I'm the C in transition, I would have considered P#12 the primary defender who gets passed; P#31 becomes the secondary defender.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

Another good play for discussion.

P#31 was a secondary defender during OSU#3's outnumbered fastbreak drive to the basket.

IMO, P#31 moved laterally when OSU#3 was airborne and the contact occurred.

If we are talking about how much he moved laterally, than we are talking about an inch or two. He was basically there waiting on the contact. He even took the contact in the chest. I would not at all consider that outside of the movement stated in the rulebook. I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to the defender in this case most of the time. It would be one thing if he slide over a couple of feet, but he is trying to take the contact. The only thing it seems like you would require is for him to be totally still, which is not the requirement for the rule.

Peace

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If we are talking about how much he moved laterally, than we are talking about an inch or two. He was basically there waiting on the contact. He even took the contact in the chest. I would not at all consider that outside of the movement stated in the rulebook. I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to the defender in this case most of the time. It would be one thing if he slide over a couple of feet, but he is trying to take the contact. The only thing it seems like you would require is for him to be totally still, which is not the requirement for the rule.

Peace

Appreciate the feedback but respectfully disagree.

It's not the only thing I require but I sure would not allow lateral or oblique movement of a secondary defender (even an inch or two) into an airborne shooter, which is indeed stated as a foul in the rulebook.

I was mentored under the old adage of giving the defender the benefit of the doubt and for them to take it in the chest to get that offensive charge call. With the induction of the RA in the college game, you do yourself more harm in keeping with that thought process. The supervisors I work for have instructed their staff to move away from that philosophy and that was a directive given above them. It's taken some time but I'm doing my best to adhere to the change.

We either adapt or get passed by those who do.

[Altor]

And I disagree that he "took it in the chest." White's knee hit Black in the shoulder. If he doesn't slide over more after the offensive player is airborne, the contact is negligible if there is any at all.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

Appreciate the feedback but respectfully disagree.

It's not the only thing I require but I sure would not allow lateral or oblique movement of a secondary defender (even an inch or two) into an airborne shooter, which is indeed stated as a foul in the rulebook.

I was mentored under the old adage of giving the defender the benefit of the doubt and for them to take it in the chest to get that offensive charge call. With the induction of the RA in the college game, you do yourself more harm in keeping with that thought process. The supervisors I work for have instructed their staff to move away from that philosophy and that was a directive given above them. It's taken some time but I'm doing my best to adhere to the change.

We either adapt or get passed by those who do.

You have every right to disagree. But I think we are splitting hairs if that is lateral movement after the shooter has left the floor. But again this is after all a judgment call. The officials on the game called a foul on the defender. I would hope I would not in this case. And the RA only comes into play if you have them in the RA in the first place, which it does not look like that is the case. But it was asked by the OP to see if that was the case. Also my comment about giving the benefit of not penalizing the defender if they are not "perfect." The shooter could have pulled up. But again that is the philosophy that I live by.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Cylinder of Verticality.

Is that anything like the Cone of Silence?

[BryanV21]

Count me among those that say "block".