Originally Posted by Adam (Post 994236)

why is this not LGP?

Originally Posted by northbendon (Post 994242)

We went with intentional foul didn't think it was a violent act ....thanks for the feed back


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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 994232)

He stated it was a Varsity Girls contest. Are there any states that use college rules beyond implementation of the shot clock?

Originally Posted by kelvinsmerli (Post 994294)

intentional 4 elbow heighth with assumption of NO knowledge of defender. Any thought of A1 knowing, Gone


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Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 994299)

Not on a player just turning. If the elbow moves independent of the hips, minimum intentional.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 994281)

What rule set were you utilizing?



Would also like to know the answer to Adam's question.

Originally Posted by BigCat (Post 994303)

If you read the POE, the written words require that any moving elbow is intentional. Contact with an elbow "in movement" is intentional foul, it says. If the elbows move in a speed faster than the body rotates it is deemed "excessive" and intentional OR flagrant is possible.

If the elbow is stationary it is either incidental or common foul. Common foul example is a screening player setting it with hands at chest and elbows out beyond shoulders. Illegal position. Defender runs by and hits elbow with head. Elbow is stationary so common foul.

The way the POE is written if the elbow is moving in high school it is intentional. Even if the elbow is simply moving with the rest of the body at normal speed.

That is what the POE says and requires. I dont like it. Id like to be able to call a common foul in certain circumstances. My biggest gripe though is that all this, whatever they want, isnt in the rule book.

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 994326)

A moving elbow is one moving faster than the torso, IE swinging elbows.

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 994326)

The POE was not written that way. A moving elbow is one moving faster than the torso, IE swinging elbows.

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 994215)

You do not see this anywhere because it was an overreaction and taking a position that even the NCAA backed off of. There were many times where any slight contact with an opponent would have been an intentional or flagrant when the player was doing normal basketball movements. If I recall they did not make a definitive statement across the board. But I know my state made it clear that we were not to just make this an "automatic" but to judge the nature of the contact. For example if a player is coming down a rebounding the ball and hitting the opponent in the head with an elbow where the player might not have even realized the opponent was there. After all players do try to grab the ball and come down with their elbows in some kind of way. Now our state clarified this for us here, maybe you need to get clarification from your people. The NF is just going to give what they feel needs to be addressed and the specifics are going to come from your jurisdiction as that is their overall policy it seems.


Peace

Originally Posted by potato (Post 994393)

I guess there are 2 things to consider:

1.Was the action intentional.
2.How bad was the contact if there was any.

Intentional & Bad = Flagrant 2/Disqualifying foul

Intentional & Minor = Flagrant 2/Disqualifying foul

Intentional no contact = Technical Foul/Unsportsmanship Foul.

Unintentional & Bad = Flagrant 2/Disqualifying foul

Unintentional & Minor = Flagrant 1/Unsportsmanship foul

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 994421)

If we are talking elbow plays, calling a technical foul is not appropriate. This is violation or nothing at either NF or NCAA level.

Peace