In my city, these 3 situations will only happen in an International School where they host the annual tournament inviting overseas HS teams to compete. That's the only chance I have the full enjoyment of refing-once a year.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chin Ref
[B]In my city, these 3 situations will only happen in an International School where they host the annual tournament inviting overseas HS teams to compete. That's the only chance I have the full enjoyment of refing-once a year.
[QUOTE]


I am guessing you are referring to Hong Kong International school's December tournament. Have you reffed St. Mary's High School (from Tokyo)? I know they go there every year. They are one of the best teams here in Tokyo. How did the Kong Kong schools compare to St. Mary's?

OC, you're damn right, how do you know?? I dont recall if I have done the St. Mary's. Generally, the skill level of the teams are not too far apart as most of the players are the children of the expatriates from overseas to those particular cities. The tournament plays the regular rules instead of most of the local games play running clock. I have fun out of it.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by oc
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by Chin Ref
In my city, these 3 situations will only happen in an International School where they host the annual tournament inviting overseas HS teams to compete. That's the only chance I have the full enjoyment of refing-once a year.

Quote:

I am guessing you are referring to Hong Kong International school's December tournament. Have you reffed St. Mary's High School (from Tokyo)? I know they go there every year. They are one of the best teams here in Tokyo. How did the Kong Kong schools compare to St. Mary's?

I teach at an International school in Japan. I saw the HKIS tourney on St. Mary's schedule. I heard good things about it from their coach. My cross-country team competed against HKIS a few years ago when they came to Tokyo for a tournament-from what I have seen and heard HKIS is one of the better International schools. I would like to ask you some more about bball in HK. Please send me an email

[Edited by oc on Sep 25th, 2003 at 04:15 AM]

Depending upon your area your suggestion may not be possible to implement. I can tell you that in Nevada you have to do both or you get nothing.
I think this is a mistake on the part of the association and its assignors because rather than having someone who is thrilled to be there reffing the girls' game, you will get people with negative attitudes and total apathy for the game.

In many cases the problem is further exacerbated in Northern Nevada by the schools themselves. (Las Vegas does the schedule differently and more intelligently IMO.) They insist on scheduling the GV and BV games back to back at one site. This double-header is preceeded by a jv or frosh game. The other school hosts the remaining three lower level games. They do this to attract bigger crowds for the varsity games.
Since most officials do not like to go to a gym for only one HS game, one crew of three is often given both varsity games. The problem attitude that this creates is "don't run too hard in the girls' game, so we will have energy left for the boys' game."
It also tends to keep the majority of the varsity assignments in a small circle of officials.

My state uses two man crews for all HS regular season. For the first time last year they used three man for the play off tournament. The HS refs bacisally learned as they went along (college guys knew it).

No crew is allowed to ref two varsity games in one day. However, it is common to ref a FR/JV doubleheader.

The idea to have two varsity games back to back in Nevada seems good to me, except for letting the same crew do both games. Also, they could actually alternate the schedule so that one night the boys game is last, and the following time they play, the girls game is last. Then the reluctant refs can "go all out" with the energy they have left from the boys game.

Sounds like your area needs to implement a conditioning program. Doing 3-person mechanics and having to "save themselves" for a second game? Yikes.

Z

I agree that saving yourself for the "real" game deserves to be spread equally between boys and girls. Why not have two crews, though? Crew A could do 1st JV game and then sit, and then do 1st Var, Crew B could do 2nd JV and then sit and 2nd Var. After all that's what the swing players do!

Actually, U.P. here, my partner plays swing, trumpet and vocal, and he doesn't sit out at all.

Juules,
You misunderstood the schedule of games. Allow me to be more specific. When school A plays school B, school A will host three games and so will school B. Let's say school A is designated the home school for this match-up. That means they have the two varsity games. So on a weekday (like a Friday) at school A we would have a GJV @ 3:45PM, GV @ 5:15, and BV @ 7PM. School B would then have the BF, GF, and BJV in some order at the same times at their gym. The order of the GV and BV games never changes (they could flip them, but they don't), but the location and the order of playing the other four games rotates from year to year. For example, one year the BF game may preceed the two varsity games, but the next year it may be the GJV.
Since there are only three games at any one site, you see why your proposed plan would not work? Also many people are not available for that early 3:45 afternoon game!

Now Vegas does things in a much better manner in my opinion.
When two schools meet, they play the boys games at one site and the girls games at the other. They start at 5 and play the freshmen and junior varisty games simultaneously. Each school was built with a main and an auxillary gym, so the jv game is in the main gym and the frosh game is in the smaller gym. The varsity game is then played in the main gym following the jv game.
This allows the officials better travel time after work on a weekday, and lets the assignor send only four officials to a school if he wants. Three of them simply stay and work the varsity game after doing the lower level games two-man.
The assignor can also honor requests to do girls games only under this schedule. I know him personally and he tells me that he does not honor requests to do boys only, but with this line-up he could.
Why is it different in the north and south? Who knows?

You're right, I did misunderstand. We have some schools that do things the way you are describing here.

But what I was thinking of is a school here in the Portland area which is very small, and a long ways from most of the schools they play. Here's how they schedule everyone in. The visiting boys and girls, JV and Varsity (they don't have frosh teams), all pile onto one bus, at about 2 pm, and drive to the school I'm thinking of. JV girls get both locker rooms (visitors in one, home in the other) and then warm up, and their game starts at 3:00. The JV girls go back into their locker rooms at half-time for their "talk" and while they play their second half, JV boys get the locker rooms. When JV girls are finished, they get the locker rooms, JV boys come out onto the floor to warm up and play their first half, starting at 4:30. JV boys get the locker rooms for their half-time, then Varsity girls use it during the JV boys second half. And so on. Varsity girls play at 6:00, boys at 7:30. Anyone that's not playing is in the stands studying or distracting others.

Refs have to either try to juggle into this schedule, or use the bathrooms in the main building. We usually get scheduled in one crew to do the two JV games, and then one crew for Varsity girls, and one crew for Varsity boys. But it could work to use just two crews total.

Juules,
Being in Nevada, we have a number of small schools in the state. They do not field freshmen teams and some do not even have jvs, but most do. When they play, they run the four games exactly as you have stated. We officiate these small school games two-man, and 99% of the time the refs are scheduled in two crews. One crew does the two jv games and the other comes later and works both of the varsity games. Because of the wide open space out here there is significant travel, and so it makes sense to do it this way with the out-of-town small schools. While it is still not the ideal way to handle it, I can understand why these schools are done this way. I only have a real problem with the way the games at the bigger schools, which are in town, are handled. I can't think of any rationale for working a GV/BV doubleheader in town other than greed. It is not like we are severely short of officials and need to do this. Perhaps in years past the association was quite small and the current schedule is a hold-over from then, but I doubt it.

I wish..
 

I really wish that the "powers that be" in Michigan that have decided we need to realign girls and boys basketball seasons so it will be at the same time, could read most of these posts.
In Michigan, pretty much EVERYONE does the girls season from August-December and the boys season from December-March. We don't have to worry about disliking one genders game over another, which game we will coast through, goofy travel times, lack of practice space, or locker room space.
I am not looking forward to the season change, and all of the problems it poses, if it happens before I retire. JMHO

Re: I wish..
 

I am sure you will deal with it like everyone else around the country deals with it. This is not really a problem. I have never heard anyone make a major issue out of practice space or goofy travel times. This is not the things that cause problems. But disliking one gender over the other has nothing to do with the times that the games are played, that is because many officials have a preference. No different when officials advance to the college level. Everyone has some kind of preference for some reason.

And this is a question for both mick and yourself. What are all the football officials doing? Are they doing a lot of basketball during this time? Or do they wait until the girls season is over?

Peace

Re: Re: I wish..
 

Rut,
Girls' frosh, JV, Varsity games are Tuesday and Thursday.
JV Football is on Thursday.
Varsity Football is on Friday night and Saturday afternoon.
We've got plenty of officials U.P. here to handle Thursdays.
mick