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-   -   Duke/Virginia PC/B call (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/101018-duke-virginia-pc-b-call.html)

Raymond Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 983159)
This isn't a screening play. Being "stationary" is not required and the player is allowed to be moving at the time of contact. The rules allow the defender to jump into the air vertically, or even turn or duck to absorb contact.

Please be precise, if you are going to make a judgment on this play. It's only about reaching a position on the court before the opponent becomes airborne. Don't fall into the misguided thinking that the defender must be a perfectly still statue to take a charge.

That defender was still sliding into place when the offensive player went airborne. And that's why the Lead called a block

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bob jenkins Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:50pm

I think that it's very close and either call would be supported. I have the feet down just as the offensive player is leaving the floor, but the body is still straightening up over the feet.

JRutledge Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:57pm

This is clearly a block to me. Moving over while the shooter was airborne. Easy call if you ask me.

Peace

JetMetFan Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcubed48 (Post 983144)
Okay, it wasn't a blarge by mechanic, but I can assume that you're taught to withhold a preliminary.

I said live it looked to be a charge. On replay, I have a block. The defender didn't establish LGP prior to the beginning of the shooter's motion. ICC - I agree.

According to NCAAW mechanics, this play was then the C's all the way. In the clip, the L has his eyes on the play all the way to the end. If the C is following the ball into the paint, he had to pick up the defender late. I would assume that this play would be discussed in the postgame.

As Bob said, this play was the L's. If he had something in front of him which prevented him from seeing it then the C and/or the T would jump in after waiting a beat. I had one like this a few weeks ago. Big crash, no whistle and my first thought - I was the T - was, "Holy %*$&! That girl got hammered!" Then made the call. L thanked me afterwards because she got blocked out.

In an ideal world no one in the OP would have given a preliminary signal. They didn't seem to discuss it much on the court so my guess is the L wasn't 150% sure so he gave it up - possibly they had similar plays that were called blocks earlier and he went with that flow, though he was correct here. I'm thinking they would have discussed it in the locker room and an observer may have brought it up as well.

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LRZ Sat Mar 05, 2016 01:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 983170)
I think that it's very close and either call would be supported. I have the feet down just as the offensive player is leaving the floor, but the body is still straightening up over the feet.

I don't understand how this factors into the analysis. How does it affect your call? Is it relevant in college? I don't see how it would be germane in HS, where LGP requires only two feet touching the court and the front of the torso facing the opponent. Or am I missing something?

Raymond Sat Mar 05, 2016 01:28pm

The endline view (from behind the Lead) tells me all I need to know.

Nevadaref Sat Mar 05, 2016 01:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 983174)
The endline view (from behind the Lead) tells me all I need to know.

The whole point of my earlier post was that the endline view is the worst look for this particular play as one is shielded from seeing the offensive player's feet.

The camera view from the sideline seems to be a better look to me.

JetMetFan Sat Mar 05, 2016 01:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 983173)
I don't understand how this factors into the analysis. How does it affect your call? Is it relevant in college? I don't see how it would be germane in HS, where LGP requires only two feet touching the court and the front of the torso facing the opponent. Or am I missing something?

It doesn't, really. At least it doesn't based on a conversation with the SRE about another play posted on the forum two years ago. To paraphrase his thoughts (in no particular order)...

*Defenders aren't required to become statues once their feet hit the ground. It's not a fair expectation.
*Every player has their own vertical plane and they're allowed to rise within that plane. That includes straightening up.
*If their body moves forward outside their vertical plane and there's contact, they've committed a foul.

Again, that's me paraphrasing him.

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Nevadaref Sat Mar 05, 2016 02:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 983177)
It doesn't, really. At least it doesn't based on a conversation with the SRE about another play posted on the forum two years ago. To paraphrase his thoughts (in no particular order)...

*Defenders aren't required to become statues once their feet hit the ground. It's not a fair expectation.
*Every player has their own vertical plane and they're allowed to rise within that plane. That includes straightening up.
*If their body moves forward outside their vertical plane and there's contact, they've committed a foul.

Again, that's me paraphrasing him.

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For the record, I'm not the SRE and I've never spoken to that person, but my thoughts are directly in line with those. Too many officials over penalize defenders.

LRZ Sat Mar 05, 2016 02:42pm

What does "SRE" mean?

BillyMac Sat Mar 05, 2016 03:28pm

Say The Secret Word ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 983147)
... what is "ICC?"

International Code Council.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 983183)
What does "SRE" mean?

Society of Reliability Engineers.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., and Choo Choo Charlie, belong to both of these organizations.

Raymond Sat Mar 05, 2016 05:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 983183)
What does "SRE" mean?

Secretary rules editor, Jon Levinson

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Smitty Mon Mar 07, 2016 09:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 983184)
International Code Council.



Society of Reliability Engineers.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., and Choo Choo Charlie, belong to both of these organizations.

Why do you insist on cluttering up meaningful conversation with your nonsense? So annoying...

reffish Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:22am

As a crew, the C and L should have held their preliminary signals and determined the primary official, especially with a double whistle. What was the final call?

jeremy341a Mon Mar 07, 2016 03:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 983171)
This is clearly a block to me. Moving over while the shooter was airborne. Easy call if you ask me.

Peace

Sincere question.
I'm not convinced the defense was but if the defense was already in the path when the offensive player went air born then the extra sideways movement is irrelevant correct?


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