Imbalance

[Wolves Coach]

I have been coaching basketball for more years that I wish to mention. I thought I have seen everything until last week. We were involved in a semi-final playoff game at the higher-seed's gym. They were responsible for acquiring officials. Both teams played an aggressive man-to-man defense the entire game. I point this out because what I am about to explain has occurred before when one team plays a simple zone and another team plays an aggressive man. In the 4th quarter, of what was a continual1-3 point difference, I had 3 of my starters foul out of the game. And let me point out that they weren't in foul trouble the first half! The home team, during the second half, committed a total of 3 team fouls. One official had control of the entire game, where the other one just ran up and down the floor. I am not the type of coach that takes credit for wins and blames officials for losses. Please, someone let me see this 'travesty' from a different perspective. Right now all I can think is we were hosed...

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Wolves Coach

I have been coaching basketball for more years that I wish to mention. I thought I have seen everything until last week. We were involved in a semi-final playoff game at the higher-seed's gym. They were responsible for acquiring officials. Both teams played an aggressive man-to-man defense the entire game. I point this out because what I am about to explain has occurred before when one team plays a simple zone and another team plays an aggressive man. In the 4th quarter, of what was a continual1-3 point difference, I had 3 of my starters foul out of the game. And let me point out that they weren't in foul trouble the first half! The home team, during the second half, committed a total of 3 team fouls. One official had control of the entire game, where the other one just ran up and down the floor. I am not the type of coach that takes credit for wins and blames officials for losses. Please, someone let me see this 'travesty' from a different perspective. Right now all I can think is we were hosed...

Unless you have a video of the game, or videos of certain plays you think the officials got wrong, nobody is going to say your team was "hosed" based on the foul count, and the types of defenses the teams were running.

I'm not saying you weren't "hosed", but we've got nothing to go on here.

Sorry

[JRutledge]

First of all welcome to the site.

Secondly this is an officiating site. We do not take kindly to just general complaints of officiating. We are mostly officials and love to talk about plays and situations and you have not given us any at this point. We were not there and have no idea what your players fouling out has to do with us. Now if you want to provide some videos we can review on a call or a situation that a rule might not have been applied properly, that would be great and helpful. But with all due respect, no one here cares what happen in your game and why you lost. We were not there to see the game or to know if your players were just not doing their job properly or were not adjusting to what was being called.

But if you have some questions about a specific situation we can answer to the best of our ability, but if you are hear to rant about how bad the officiating is, that is not going to work.

Peace

[deecee]

^^ what they said ^^

[SC Official]

If you think there's a problem, why don't you take it to your state association rather than trying to get posters on an officiating message board to sympathize with you?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Let me also point out that maybe it's time you moved into the 21st century and played in a league where they hire 3-man crews instead of only 2.

[Dad]

When I read imbalance, I was really hoping this wasn't going to be a post about foul count differential.

I'm so sad.

So sad.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Wolves Coach

I have been coaching basketball for more years that I wish to mention. I thought I have seen everything until last week. We were involved in a semi-final playoff game at the higher-seed's gym. They were responsible for acquiring officials. Both teams played an aggressive man-to-man defense the entire game. I point this out because what I am about to explain has occurred before when one team plays a simple zone and another team plays an aggressive man. In the 4th quarter, of what was a continual1-3 point difference, I had 3 of my starters foul out of the game. And let me point out that they weren't in foul trouble the first half! The home team, during the second half, committed a total of 3 team fouls. One official had control of the entire game, where the other one just ran up and down the floor. I am not the type of coach that takes credit for wins and blames officials for losses. Please, someone let me see this 'travesty' from a different perspective. Right now all I can think is we were hosed...

That time of year.

Coach, if you have an issue with the officiating, you're going to get more from the state than you will here.

If you have a question about a play or two that you don't understand, feel free to post video.

[Bad Zebra]

Coach, the others here have explained why we can't objectively analyze your game. Rather than repeating their assertions, let me just give you ONE thing to take away from this discussion board that is universal regarding foul counts: There is ABSOLUTELY NO CORRELATION between the foul counts of either team and the quality of the officiating in said game.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by Wolves Coach

I have been coaching basketball for more years that I wish to mention. I thought I have seen everything until last week. We were involved in a semi-final playoff game at the higher-seed's gym. They were responsible for acquiring officials. Both teams played an aggressive man-to-man defense the entire game. I point this out because what I am about to explain has occurred before when one team plays a simple zone and another team plays an aggressive man. In the 4th quarter, of what was a continual1-3 point difference, I had 3 of my starters foul out of the game. And let me point out that they weren't in foul trouble the first half! The home team, during the second half, committed a total of 3 team fouls. One official had control of the entire game, where the other one just ran up and down the floor. I am not the type of coach that takes credit for wins and blames officials for losses. Please, someone let me see this 'travesty' from a different perspective. Right now all I can think is we were hosed...

It sounds to me like your team fouled more. Period.

When coaches whine to me about the foul count I either ignore them or tell them it's not my job to keep the fouls even and move on.

[jpgc99]

From your post, I don't see any evidence that you were hosed. As others have said, there is no correlation between foul count and quality of officiating.

I do, however, see evidence that the following statement is not correct:

Originally Posted by Wolves Coach

I am not the type of coach that takes credit for wins and blames officials for losses.

If not blaming the officials for the loss, than what are you doing?

[deecee]

Anyone found a coach's forum where we can go and ask questions about the stupid things coaches do, say, and how they behave?

Wonder how much "sympathy" a coach would give a ref for having to deal with an a*hole coach (which I think we deal with more a*hole coaches than they deal with crooked officials - BY A LONG SHOT).

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by Wolves Coach

I have been coaching basketball for more years that I wish to mention. I thought I have seen everything until last week. We were involved in a semi-final playoff game at the higher-seed's gym. They were responsible for acquiring officials. Both teams played an aggressive man-to-man defense the entire game. I point this out because what I am about to explain has occurred before when one team plays a simple zone and another team plays an aggressive man. In the 4th quarter, of what was a continual1-3 point difference, I had 3 of my starters foul out of the game. And let me point out that they weren't in foul trouble the first half! The home team, during the second half, committed a total of 3 team fouls. One official had control of the entire game, where the other one just ran up and down the floor. I am not the type of coach that takes credit for wins and blames officials for losses. Please, someone let me see this 'travesty' from a different perspective. Right now all I can think is we were hosed...

It is hard to decipher what your complaint was. Do you think the officials were calling fouls on your team that should have been no-calls? Do you think the officials were not calling fouls on the other team that should have been called?

Since it was a playoff game, the game probably contained two good teams playing hard and two good officials.

I'm sure the officials wanted to get every call correct, but nobody has ever called a perfect game.

Both officials wanted to be fair.

A few possible explanations for the foul disparity:

The H team attacked the basket more and drew more fouls

The H team played defense aggressively, but without fouling (e.g., defenders jumped straight up with hands up; defenders trapped without hitting the offensive player's arms) while the V team did commit fouls (e.g., defenders jumping into offensive players and swatting at shots)

The V team was losing and wanted to foul towards the end of the game to get the ball back

Players for the V team did not adjust to how the officials were calling the game - they thought the officials were making bad calls and they were going to continue to play defense the way they do in practice. I believe that after losing the NCAA Championship Game last year, Bo Ryan complained about a call because that is not how he calls it (incorrectly) during their practices.

Players for H had a better understanding of how tightly the officials were going to call the game.

[just another ref]

I will say this. Sometimes the calling just seems one-sided. No reason for it, that's just the way it is. One team gets every iffy call. At the end of a game, (more often the end of a half) I have thought to myself, that the calling seemed crooked to me, and I was one of the ones doing it. All this being said, I had no dog in the fight, and coach, you obviously do, so.....

[BoomerSooner]

Wolves Coach,
As you are interested in getting a different perspective, here is my point by point analysis of your post.

Originally Posted by Wolves Coach

I have been coaching basketball for more years that I wish to mention. I thought I have seen everything until last week.

There are probably quite a few of us that have been officiating just as long. Even those of us with less experience know every coach is biased toward his/her team. That is not a criticism of you, just a statement accepting the reality that we are all biased, and I would be disappointed if you weren't biased toward your team. You should be invested in the success of your players and team. That said, we can't ignore that bias when reading your post.

Originally Posted by Wolves Coach

We were involved in a semi-final playoff game at the higher-seed's gym. They were responsible for acquiring officials.

It sounds like you feel the corruption started here. This could be analyzed several ways, but I won't deny that allowing the home team to select the officials feels suspect. The issue isn't that there was some degree of collusion between the school and the officials. I am comfortable believing that given the opportunity, most schools will pick officials that they've had favorable experiences with in the past. I suspect this issue is the root of your frustration, and if so, you should consider addressing the procedure for assigning officials, especially for playoff games, with the body that oversees athletic activities in your state. I would also recommend that you try to filter this out of your assessment of the officiating. Would you feel as strongly as you do about the officiating if you had hand picked these officials?

Originally Posted by Wolves Coach

Both teams played an aggressive man-to-man defense the entire game. I point this out because what I am about to explain has occurred before when one team plays a simple zone and another team plays an aggressive man.

Ruling out one explanation (defensive style) for the differential in fouls doesn't give us any better understanding of how the game was played. Even if both teams are of equal skill, there are plenty of other game flow considerations that could explain the differential (one team is more perimeter shooting oriented vs. a driving or post-play oriented team).

Originally Posted by Wolves Coach

In the 4th quarter, of what was a continual1-3 point difference, I had 3 of my starters foul out of the game. And let me point out that they weren't in foul trouble the first half! The home team, during the second half, committed a total of 3 team fouls.

This statement doesn't suggest there were any bad calls against your team. Did the opposing coach make a concerted effort to target those players once they committed their 4th fouls? Also, mentioning that the opposing team only had 3 team fouls in the 2nd half doesn't tell us much about overall game flow. Assuming each of the 3 starters you mentioned only had 2 fouls at half, then all we can determine a foul differential of 6 fouls (9 against your team, 3 against the other), which is not an absurd difference by any means. It is noticeable, but in no way evidence of corruption.

Originally Posted by Wolves Coach

One official had control of the entire game, where the other one just ran up and down the floor.

Occasionally the flow of the game results in one official making more of the calls. I wouldn't say it is common, but it does happen. It is also possible that you were dealing with a less experienced official that took a back seat to the veteran official. It is possible that they simply have different styles of calling games (tight vs. loose), which could also explain the foul differential if the opposing coach instructed his players to be aware of the differences. He could have coached his players to try to initiate drives from the tighter officials primary zone or dump it into the post on his side if he was the lead. He could have also instructed them to be more cautious defensively on plays in said official's primary. If the opposing team adjusted as I suggested, it may have led to more offensive opportunities for your team than if they had played aggressive defense, and ultimately this may have contributed to the score remaining as close as it did.

Originally Posted by Wolves Coach

I am not the type of coach that takes credit for wins and blames officials for losses. Please, someone let me see this 'travesty' from a different perspective. Right now all I can think is we were hosed...

Your request is to see the "travesty" from a different perspective. This sounds like you've already determined it was just that, so what difference does our perspective make...in your mind it was still a travesty. I could provide the perspective that your team was out-coached and out-played, but as others have said, we weren't there, we don't know what happened and it wouldn't be any more fair of us to make such suggestions than it is for you to come here hoping to find support for your criticism of the officiating.