Purdue @ Indiana Plays

[JRutledge]

Play 1: You do not see this every day at the higher levels.


Play 2:


Play 3:


Play 4:


Peace

[Camron Rust]

#1-3, not much to discuss. Properly called.

#4, if that is going to be called, the defensive armbar that preceded it should have probably been called instead. That said, that seemed like a pretty weak call either way.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

#1-3, not much to discuss. Properly called.

#4, if that is going to be called, the defensive armbar that preceded it should have probably been called instead. That said, that seemed like a pretty weak call either way.

His so-called arm-bar did not affect anything. He was getting his arm mostly out of the way. That is not how it is expected to be called from my point of view.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

The last time that I recall #1 occurring in an NCAAM game of significance was the 2004 Sweet 16 between Georgia Tech and Nevada.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

#4, if that is going to be called, the defensive armbar that preceded it should have probably been called instead. That said, that seemed like a pretty weak call either way.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

His so-called arm-bar did not affect anything. He was getting his arm mostly out of the way. That is not how it is expected to be called from my point of view.

I don't know how NCAAM wants it called but all I know is that's rule 10-4-1a (Keeping a hand or forearm on an opponent with the ball). If we don't get those on my side we hear about it. Repeatedly.

[Mr.C]

I've never seen anything close to #1 at HS or NCAA-----happens all the time at middle school, they must teach it at practice. I didn't think the defensive arm hindered the dribbler before the push off.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

I don't know how NCAAM wants it called but all I know is that's rule 10-4-1a (Keeping a hand or forearm on an opponent with the ball). If we don't get those on my side we hear about it. Repeatedly.

I have never been told in a play like this to have a call other than a coach, who you have to listen to with a grain of salt. The player extends his arm without touching the ball handler and as the ball handler comes towards him his arm comes close to his own body. The arm in no way even influenced any RSBQ or prevented the ball handler from any movement in any way.

When I posted this video what you are saying should be called did not even cross my mind. There have been 10 bulletins at least posted by the NCAA and never saw any play that said we should have a foul on the ball handler in a play like this that I can remember.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have never been told in a play like this to have a call other than a coach, who you have to listen to with a grain of salt. The player extends his arm without touching the ball handler and as the ball handler comes towards him his arm comes close to his own body. The arm in no way even influenced any RSBQ or prevented the ball handler from any movement in any way.

When I posted this video what you are saying should be called did not even cross my mind. There have been 10 bulletins at least posted by the NCAA and never saw any play that said we should have a foul on the ball handler in a play like this that I can remember.

That would be the difference. RSBQ doesn't matter on my side in that situation. Put it on and leave it on = whistle. We still have to judge whether the BH/D moved into the arm/hand or vice versa but on that one the first thing that came to mind for me was hand check.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

That would be the difference. RSBQ doesn't matter on my side in that situation. Put it on and leave it on = whistle. We still have to judge whether the BH/D moved into the arm/hand or vice versa but on that one the first thing that came to mind for me was hand check.

I am just telling you that this is not a play I hear any grief about because the defender was retreating his arm and not using it in any way. Never have I called a foul that close as you suggest in college or high school. If the defender kept his arm out from his body then yes I would agree it was a foul, but that is not what happened.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

His so-called arm-bar did not affect anything. He was getting his arm mostly out of the way. That is not how it is expected to be called from my point of view.

Peace

Originally Posted by Mr.C

I've never seen anything close to #1 at HS or NCAA-----happens all the time at middle school, they must teach it at practice. I didn't think the defensive arm hindered the dribbler before the push off.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am just telling you that this is not a play I hear any grief about because the defender was retreating his arm and not using it in any way. Never have I called a foul that close as you suggest in college or high school. If the defender kept his arm out from his body then yes I would agree it was a foul, but that is not what happened.

Peace

My point was that he pushoff was very weak and was preceded by a play that has been clearly defined as an automatic foul, even if it too was weak. No way I'm calling THAT pushoff and not calling the armbar before it.....but I'm probably not calling amrbar for the reasons stated and, thus, I'm not calling the pushoff. It would be completely unfair to the offensive player too call his contact a foul in the presence of the defensive armbar, even if it was a soft one.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

My point was that he pushoff was very weak and was preceded by a play that has been clearly defined as an automatic foul, even if it too was weak. No way I'm calling THAT pushoff and not calling the armbar before it.....but I'm probably not calling amrbar for the reasons stated and, thus, I'm not calling the pushoff. It would be completely unfair to the offensive player too call his contact a foul in the presence of the defensive armbar, even if it was a soft one.

I am very aware of what your point is, I just happened to disagree with your point based on previous videos and previous stances from the NCAA on these matters.

And an armbar is when the arm is to keep you at bay and this did not do that IMO or judgment. Players have arms and usually they are going to go in front of their body at some point. It is not the expectation to never touch the ball handler. Just like it would not be a foul on the ball handler if he arm is out and he touches the defender, you have to do a little more than a touch. Never has the NCAA Men's side took such an "absolute" position.

Peace

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

That would be the difference. RSBQ doesn't matter on my side in that situation. Put it on and leave it on = whistle. We still have to judge whether the BH/D moved into the arm/hand or vice versa but on that one the first thing that came to mind for me was hand check.

These are automatic on the men's side, too, regardless of RSBQ. However, "put it on and leave it on" is not how I would describe this play. I don't have a foul for a handcheck here for that reason.

[walt]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

I don't know how NCAAM wants it called but all I know is that's rule 10-4-1a (Keeping a hand or forearm on an opponent with the ball). If we don't get those on my side we hear about it. Repeatedly.

I agree. On our side of the NCAA, the extended arm bar by the defender should have been called. Actually we probably would have seen an email or video telling us it must be called.

[jdd1172]

or call a travel

[jeremy341a]

I don't see the push off as weak. He cleared space. I don't view the arm bar as an automatic as mainly the offense moved into the arm and the arm was pulled back. That to me isn't keeping an arm bar on an opponent.