Wisconsin - Maryland review vid request.

[Refhoop]

After going to the monitor: why isn't red #10 also getting a T for dead ball contact?
I'd like to see what would have happened if #10 doesn't shove white #33 in the direction that he's was moving and almost causing him to fall over... Maybe nothing?
My conclusion is that the "head being shoved" doesn't take place without #10 red.
It is more than plausible that 10 red startles 33 white and is somewhat responsible for this mess!
Also, 33 white should have gotten a foul for falling on top of red #30.
Crap happens fast in this game!


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[Raymond]

Can't believe he said this:

“We had a jump ball. The two players fell to the floor. We had a contact dead ball technical foul against [Stone]. Then we had an unsporting technical foul against [Thomas],” head official DJ Carstensen said after the game. “It was a flagrant one foul. That’s what we deemed it. We say that was a flagrant one contact foul. The ball was dead and there was contact.”

[Nevadaref]

Other than DJ deeming it an FF1 instead of an FF2 his comment sounds rather reasonable to me.

Btw Stone was suspended for Maryland's next game against Minn.

[bballref3966]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Other than DJ deeming it an FF1 instead of an FF2 his comment sounds rather reasonable to me.

Btw Stone was suspended for Maryland's next game against Minn.

I believe his comment was partially inaccurate because you can't have an FF1 when the ball is dead.

[Nevadaref]

Perhaps, but I think that is being too picky. He clearly said that it was a contact dead ball technical foul. I believe that he then went on to clarify that they considered it to be of the flagrant one level instead of flagrant two to whomever he was speaking. (Most of us disagree with this decision.) Since the officials still need to decide the level when the contact happens during a dead ball, even though the level 1 foul doesn't get named that in the end, I don't have any issue with that way of thinking.
Actually, I believe that the NCAA should change the terminology such that the dead ball contact fouls are labeled as FF1 or FF2. It would make the whole system more consistent and clearer to everyone.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Perhaps, but I think that is being too picky. He clearly said that it was a contact dead ball technical foul. I believe that he then went on to clarify that they considered it to be of the flagrant one level instead of flagrant two to whomever he was speaking. (Most of us disagree with this decision.) Since the officials still need to decide the level when the contact happens during a dead ball, even though the level 1 foul doesn't get named that in the end, I don't have any issue with that way of thinking.
Actually, I believe that the NCAA should change the terminology such that the dead ball contact fouls are labeled as FF1 or FF2. It would make the whole system more consistent and clearer to everyone.

It's pretty clear to me. CDBT fouls = F1 technicals. It was annoying at first but at least CDBT sticks out so we don't confuse them with anything else.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

It's pretty clear to me. CDBT fouls = F1 technicals. It was annoying at first but at least CDBT sticks out so we don't confuse them with anything else.

CDBT do NOT equal F1's. an F1 is the HS equivalent of a intentional foul and is for live ball contact. CDBT can be just that a T or a F2. The only difference is the spot the ball is put into play and a player being dq'd.

A flagrant foul 1 ONLY exists as a personal foul. The F2 can be a personal or Technical foul depending on when the contact occurs.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Perhaps, but I think that is being too picky. He clearly said that it was a contact dead ball technical foul. I believe that he then went on to clarify that they considered it to be of the flagrant one level instead of flagrant two to whomever he was speaking. (Most of us disagree with this decision.) Since the officials still need to decide the level when the contact happens during a dead ball, even though the level 1 foul doesn't get named that in the end, I don't have any issue with that way of thinking.
Actually, I believe that the NCAA should change the terminology such that the dead ball contact fouls are labeled as FF1 or FF2. It would make the whole system more consistent and clearer to everyone.

If you are to make statements to the press an official, you need to properly address the scenario using the appropriate terms. An F1 is a personal foul that results in 2 shots by the offended players and a throw-in at the spot of the foul. A CDBT is a Class A technical that results in shots by any offended team player and a division line throw-in.

The fact that he jumbled up the rule terminology may have played a part in them not properly ruling this an F2 in the first place.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If you are to make statements to the press an official, you need to properly address the scenario using the appropriate terms. An F1 is a personal foul that results in 2 shots by the offended players and a throw-in at the spot of the foul. A CDBT is a Class A technical that results in shots by any offended team player and a division line throw-in.

The fact that he jumbled up the rule terminology may have played a part in them not properly ruling this an F2 in the first place.

I seriously doubt it had an impact on the decision made on the court to not disqualify the offending player. He was merely making the point to the media that it was a level 1 offense, not a level 2.

I still think that there are too many classifications for fouls in the NCAA book. Streamline it by going with either level 1 & level 2 or class a & class b for all types of fouls which aren't normal fouls. I don't understand why the same system can't apply to both personal and technical fouls.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

I believe his comment was partially inaccurate because you can't have an FF1 when the ball is dead.

Why not?

Contact that would be and FF1 during a live ball becomes a T during a dead ball. Because it happens during a dead ball, it becomes a T. If it is not enough for an FF1, it is not enough for a dead ball contact T.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Why not?

Because FF1 is LIVE ball only. Dead ball you have a "contact dead ball T" or unsporting T. you can have dead ball FF2 but not 1.

Also the resumption of play for a FF versus T is different.

[bballref3966]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Why not?

Contact that would be and FF1 during a live ball becomes a T during a dead ball. Because it happens during a dead ball, it becomes a T. If it is not enough for an FF1, it is not enough for a dead ball contact T.

Why not? Because the foul chart at the back of the NCAA rule book makes pretty clear that a flagrant 1 foul is a live ball personal foul.

There is no such thing as an FF1 technical. If some officials think of it that way, fine, but it's still not the correct terminology. It's not like NFHS where an intentional foul can be personal or technical.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

Why not? Because the foul chart at the back of the NCAA rule book makes pretty clear that a flagrant 1 foul is a live ball personal foul.

There is no such thing as an FF1 technical. If some officials think of it that way, fine, but it's still not the correct terminology. It's not like NFHS where an intentional foul can be personal or technical.

The point is that when contact that would be a FF1 during a live ball occurs, it should be ruled a technical during a dead ball. If it doesn't rise to the level of a FF1, it is generally not enough to be called (at least not for the contact itself).