Three Person Game In Connecticut ...

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by Rich

What a great opportunity missed to give a JV official a shot to work a varsity game -- working 3-person in both.

I've worked almost 40 3-person games this season and no 2-person games. Haven't had a bit of soreness this year *at all* -- first time in a long, long time. I attribute a lot of that to not having to work the perimeter as the T as hard as you have to in a 2-person game.

You are correct there. You don't have to work the perimeter as hard, but I think overall, if you still hustle and do what you are supposed to do you come out of there physically tired.

Not saying that anybody on this board isn't hustling whether it's 2 man or 3 man.

I just feel the same physically in a 2 or 3 man game. Now an up and down game might be a little different. Especially if you get the luxury of being in the "C" for a good chunk of a game like that.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Tired from a JV game? I can barely break a sweat in a JV game no matter how much I hustle.

You said it man!

You are lucky to get what can be described as basketball in a lot of JV games.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

You are correct there. You don't have to work the perimeter as hard, but I think overall, if you still hustle and do what you are supposed to do you come out of there physically tired.

Not saying that anybody on this board isn't hustling whether it's 2 man or 3 man.

I just feel the same physically in a 2 or 3 man game. Now an up and down game might be a little different. Especially if you get the luxury of being in the "C" for a good chunk of a game like that.

My point is that I think different parts of the body are worked. The achilles tendonitis that has plagued me the last 10+ years hasn't touched me this season.

I still run as hard up and down the floor and still sweat just as much -- I just move *differently* in 2-person than I do in 3-person.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It's still a business. The school is only playing X amount of $$$ for those games, which equals the pay for a 2-man crew on each game. It's not leagues/associations that prevent 3-man crews, it's the schools.

The schools around here were fighting 3 man crews for quite some time. Now most of them are loving it. They pay more, but they realize that 3 good officials makes the game better. Hiring 3 bad officials is the same thing as hiring a 2 man crew.

The schools are realizing that if you pay the appropriate amount to get 3 good officials, the night is way better. Heck, even 2 good officials can carry a 3rd guy if the 3rd guy isn't as good.

I think wherever all of you guys are at around the country, if your schools get a taste of 3 man and see the benefits, they will come around.

A big part of it for us was the state tourneys use 3 man crews. Why were we using 2 man crews during the season? Made no sense!

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The only time I work JV is part of BJV/BV doubleheaders for small schools. The games are, well, not very challenging. But even if I were doing higher level JV games, I'd sweat some, but I definitely wouldn't be in any way tired enough that it would affect me working a Varsity game behind it, especially with a 20 minute break.

100% correct!!!!!!

If you are too tired to work a varsity game, boys or girls, after working a JV game with a 20 minute break, you probably need to not be officiating anymore and/or get yourself into better shape.

It's fun to hear how all of the different leagues, schools, states, associations, etc operate around the country. 2 man JV/Varsity crews forever here. Then a slow transition to 3 man crews, fought by the schools. Now most everybody is on board around here.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by Rich

My point is that I think different parts of the body are worked. The achilles tendonitis that has plagued me the last 10+ years hasn't touched me this season.

I still run as hard up and down the floor and still sweat just as much -- I just move *differently* in 2-person than I do in 3-person.

I hear ya! I think if you have any sort of ailment, a 3 man crew can help with that. Just another benefit!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am sure you know the name Ed Ferrigno of Board 8.

Great official. Known statewide.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

Why not assign that young JV official to the varsity game?

Most aren't ready for a game that "counts". Our junior varsity guy was a second year official.

Originally Posted by jpgc99

Ultimately if the association/league have no desire to move to 3 man crews for varsity games, the experience at the JV level becomes irrelevant.

We (officials) have the desire. The State interscholastic sports governing body has the desire. Coaches don't want three person crews. The successful coaches (who are the most vocal, and get the most attention) that press, and play man to man defense, believe it will lead to their best players getting in early foul trouble.

[RedAndWhiteRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Most aren't ready for a game that "counts". Our junior varsity guy was a second year official.



We (officials) have the desire. The State interscholastic sports governing body has the desire. Coaches don't want three person crews. The successful coaches (who are the most vocal, and get the most attention) that press, and play man to man defense, believe it will lead to their best players getting in early foul trouble.

That's dumb as hell. If they're playing defense the way they're supposed to be, they won't get in foul trouble just because there's another guy in stripes on the floor.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by RedAndWhiteRef

That's dumb as hell. If they're playing defense the way they're supposed to be, they won't get in foul trouble just because there's another guy in stripes on the floor.

These successful, vocal, powerful coaches (their coaches association acts as a lobby in dealing with our State interscholastic sports governing body) believe that an extra official will see extra fouls that might otherwise go undetected.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

These successful, vocal, powerful coaches (their coaches association acts as a lobby in dealing with our State interscholastic sports governing body) believe that an extra official will see extra fouls that might otherwise go undetected.

They will. More illegal screens, chucking the cutters, and other stuff away from the ball. But overall there won't be more fouls -- some plays that are currently called fouls will be seen better and no-called.

I give you credit, though. I've already decided if we ever go back to 2-person my days of working are over.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

But overall there won't be more fouls as some plays that are currently called fouls will be seen better and no-called.

Get rid of the multisyllable words in your post and I'll forward it to the state basketball coaches association.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Tired from a JV game? I can barely break a sweat in a JV game no matter how much I hustle.

I guess there is JV and JV. The ref's (2 man) are certainly sweating and running in my son's games.

(I think they would really benefit from 3-man. Sometimes when parents around me are screaming "how could you miss that!", I want to turn around and explain that the play happened in a tough spot for a 2-man crew to have an angle on the play . . . and then I roll my eyes to myself and just watch the game . . .)

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

These successful, vocal, powerful coaches (their coaches association acts as a lobby in dealing with our State interscholastic sports governing body) believe that an extra official will see extra fouls that might otherwise go undetected.

Sounds like you guys have to deal with a lot more crap than we do with your associations and powerful coaches etc. etc.

We have a statewide activities association that dictates to schools, A.Ds, and coaches and what is going to happen. There is a board of directors that are elected of course, but there aren't powerful coaches or associations making it harder than it has to be.

The move to 3 man crew has been great.

So basically these powerful coaches know they are getting away with things with a 2 man crew and aren't concerned on the game being officiated better and the game being better?

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by Rich

They will. More illegal screens, chucking the cutters, and other stuff away from the ball. But overall there won't be more fouls -- some plays that are currently called fouls will be seen better and no-called.

I give you credit, though. I've already decided if we ever go back to 2-person my days of working are over.

Well said Rich! That's exactly what a 3 man crew will catch.