Illegal uniform number

[jTheUmp]

I'd support either a Team T or a Direct Head Coach T for player equipment violations ONLY if they simplify the player equipment rules enough that they can actually be comprehensible to the layperson/below average official (because, let's be honest, it's really the fact that the below-average officials don't know/don't care/refuse to enforce these rules that we have any problems at all).

I've mentioned it before, but here's what I'd suggest for a player equipment rules:

Anything that isn't jersey, shorts, shoes or socks:
1) must be solid black/white/jersey colored.
2) must be the same for all teammates.

The jewelry rule can remain as-is.

[johnsonboys03]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Yes.

If you notice before the game, you tell the coach, "If he/they want to play, the first time they check in, we'll assess a one-time technical foul to you, but that's it, and you'll have to remain seated from that point forward." Any retort should be met with, "sorry, coach, but the rule on this is very clear."

If you notice during the game but before beckoning the sub with an illegal number, you can give the coach an "out" by offering him the chance to withdraw the sub. If the sub/team member doesn't participate, no penalty.

After beckoning, the sub is now a player, and you must penalize the head coach. But the sub and any other team members with illegal numbers can still play.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not to beat a dead horse but a thread earlier this week has shown part of your statement not to be true. Beckoning the sub does not make them a player. They have to be beckoned and enter the court to be a legal player.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03

Not to beat a dead horse but a thread earlier this week has shown part of your statement not to be true. Beckoning the sub does not make them a player. They have to be beckoned and enter the court to be a legal player.

Interesting application.

Once this is brought to my attention, I'd be inclined to give the coach the choice at that point.

I'd probably draw the line when the player entered the court.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

I'd support either a Team T or a Direct Head Coach T for player equipment violations ONLY if they simplify the player equipment rules enough that they can actually be comprehensible to the layperson/below average official (because, let's be honest, it's really the fact that the below-average officials don't know/don't care/refuse to enforce these rules that we have any problems at all).

They already are pretty simple. It is the gymnastics some people try to go through to get out of enforcing them that makes it complicated.

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

I've mentioned it before, but here's what I'd suggest for a player equipment rules:

Anything that isn't jersey, shorts, shoes or socks:
1) must be solid black/white/jersey colored.
2) must be the same for all teammates.

The jewelry rule can remain as-is.

Except for shoes and socks and beige being a legal color, that is the case now. Good luck getting shoes covered. With the fit of shoes being of the greatest importance, I doubt you'll ever see a color restriction on them. Likewise with medical equipment. If a doctor directs them to wear a brace, I doubt they have the choice of colors.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

They already are pretty simple.

From waist to knee, what's the difference (to an observer) between compression shorts (uniform color), short tights (black, white, beige, or jersey color, same color for all), or leg sleeves (black, white, beige, or jersey color, same color for all), that cover the entire thigh (waist to knee)?

And what defines a uniform color (compression shorts)? Jersey? Shorts?

With the exceptions above, I agree that everything else is pretty simple.

Get rid of all references to compression shorts in the rulebook and everything is pretty simple.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Get rid of all references to compression shorts in the rulebook and everything is pretty simple.

And get rid of beige as a legal color for equipment. It's 2016. Prewrap comes in all colors of the rainbow now.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03

Not to beat a dead horse but a thread earlier this week has shown part of your statement not to be true. Beckoning the sub does not make them a player. They have to be beckoned and enter the court to be a legal player.

Excellent point.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I was under the impression that the T wouldn't make it legal for them to wear it, just that it would be a T if discovered while playing and they must still remove it to continue. The idea being that the threat of a T (on the head coach) would encourage the coach to make sure it is taken care of so we don't have to.

And it would apply to all uniform/apparel issues that are regulated.

Originally Posted by Adam

I like that better.

I have to take the other side of the fence and disagree with this. If you have a uniform violation that is discovered while playing, then that means we screwed up somewhere along the way, because they shouldn't be allowed to have played in the 1st place. While I admit I haven't thought a ton about this, If a technical rule was introduced, I think it would need to be either change all uniforms to be legal (one warning) or take a single tech to cover all infractions, similar to the illegal number thing.

It just seems that calling a tech for something we should've caught earlier is going to make things worse for us, not better

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I have to take the other side of the fence and disagree with this. If you have a uniform violation that is discovered while playing, then that means we screwed up somewhere along the way, because they shouldn't be allowed to have played in the 1st place. While I admit I haven't thought a ton about this, If a technical rule was introduced, I think it would need to be either change all uniforms to be legal (one warning) or take a single tech to cover all infractions, similar to the illegal number thing.

It just seems that calling a tech for something we should've caught earlier is going to make things worse for us, not better

The idea is that we'd be removed form checking it all before the game and put the onus on the coach.

As for the illegal uniforms, it already is one T regardless of the number of offenders.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

This was my understanding as well, but I think the focus is on illegal player equipment (arm/leg sleeves, tights, head/wrist bands, etc.). Up to now the only penalty has been the player can't play with illegal equipment. I think the idea is to send a message that they are serious about enforcing player equipment rules, and as Cam said, putting the responsibility on the HC.

I did a google search and found that the state doing the trial is North Carolina. Interesting power-point -two year experiment. The first year (last year) the penalty was a team technical, this year the penalty is a direct T on the head coach. Mandatory enforcement & reporting requirement for officials as well - if they do not, entire crew can get penalized. Wonder how it is working out?

Care to share the link?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Adam

Exactly. Compare it to illegal undershirts and jewelry. No penalty, they just aren't allowed to play.

Exactly.

I was observing a game yesterday and about 2-3 minutes into the game, the trail official blows his whistle and assesses a technical foul against the player dribbling the ball for wearing one of those plastic bracelets. The coach protested, and the calling official gave him the stop sign, and said it was a technical foul. FTs were shot, and play continued.

I was in the halftime discussion, and the calling official talked about how standing up to the coach in that discussion made for a better half as the coach, who can be a bit boisterous at times, and had been in the previous day's game, spent the half coaching his kids and not worrying about the officials' calls. When the calling official turned to me and asked my opinion, I asked, "But what if the coach was right?" The official said, "But he's not right, you can't play with jewelry, and it's a technical foul if you do." I explained that his statement was half right, but that if you discover a player wearing jewelry or any illegal jewelry, armbands, sleeves, etc., you simply direct them to leave the game and they can't return until it is fixed. He then stated that the coach is responsible for not allowing a player with an illegal uniform to play. So before I explained the difference between illegal uniforms(Rule 3-4, which is specifically cited in Rule 10-5) and illegal equipment and apparel(Rule 3-5), I asked him who he assessed the technical foul against. He stated that he had called it against the PLAYER. I then pointed out if it's a uniform violation the T should be on the COACH, not the PLAYER.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Exactly.

I was observing a game yesterday and about 2-3 minutes into the game, the trail official blows his whistle and assesses a technical foul against the player dribbling the ball for wearing one of those plastic bracelets. The coach protested, and the calling official gave him the stop sign, and said it was a technical foul. FTs were shot, and play continued.

I was in the halftime discussion, and the calling official talked about how standing up to the coach in that discussion made for a better half as the coach, who can be a bit boisterous at times, and had been in the previous day's game, spent the half coaching his kids and not worrying about the officials' calls. When the calling official turned to me and asked my opinion, I asked, "But what if the coach was right?" The official said, "But he's not right, you can't play with jewelry, and it's a technical foul if you do." I explained that his statement was half right, but that if you discover a player wearing jewelry or any illegal jewelry, armbands, sleeves, etc., you simply direct them to leave the game and they can't return until it is fixed. He then stated that the coach is responsible for not allowing a player with an illegal uniform to play. So before I explained the difference between illegal uniforms(Rule 3-4, which is specifically cited in Rule 10-5) and illegal equipment and apparel(Rule 3-5), I asked him who he assessed the technical foul against. He stated that he had called it against the PLAYER. I then pointed out if it's a uniform violation the T should be on the COACH, not the PLAYER.

You rulebook official!

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Care to share the link?

https://www.nchsaa.org/sites/default...0Point.CD_.ppt

see slides 10 thru 15

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

https://www.nchsaa.org/sites/default...0Point.CD_.ppt



see slides 10 thru 15

Link doesn't work.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You rulebook official!

I do pride myself on knowing the rules and try to help educate those I work with. I also appreciate those who know and understand them better than I do and try to learn from them.