Swinging Elbows with contact

[WhistlesAndStripes]

I seem to recall that within the past 2-3 years, in one of the points of emphasis or something, there was some pretty specific language regarding swinging of elbows when contact was involved and when it is required to be an intentional foul and when it can just be a common foul.

Can anyone point me to where I can find this?

[BigCat]

I THINK it was 2011/12. Try plugging nfhs basketball elbow rule in browser. Elbow in movement. Intentional or flagrant. Stationary elbow. Common.

[SC Official]

Moving elbow contacting above the shoulders must be intentional or flagrant. That's what SC has told us for the past few years now.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

What about swinging them down low and contact Olin the chest/gut area. Is that a "must be intentional" call!


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[Nevadaref]

From the 2012-2013 season POE #2:
Contact above the shoulders. With a continued emphasis on reducing concussions and decreasing excessive contact situations the committee determined that more guidance is needed for penalizing contact above the shoulders.
a. A player shall not swing his/her arm(s) or elbow(s) even without contacting an
opponent. Excessive swinging of the elbows occurs when arms and elbows are swung about while using the shoulders as pivots, and the speed of the extended arms and elbows is in excess of the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on the pivot foot. Currently it is a violation in Rule 9 Section 13 Article.
b. Examples of illegal contact above the shoulders and resulting penalties.
1. Contact with a stationary elbow may be incidental or a common foul.
2. An elbow in movement but not excessive should be an intentional foul.
3. A moving elbow that is excessive can be either an intentional foul or flagrant personal foul.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

What about swinging them down low and contact Olin the chest/gut area. Is that a "must be intentional" call!


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As you can see the POE was for contact above the shoulders. There is no NFHS instruction for contact below the shoulders. Call as you deem appropriate.

[tnolan]

man, i have a great chart for this that really helps and it will not let me upload it. i've tried everything!

two things to think about when "deeming excessive" are:
1. elbows swinging faster than torso, and
2. wind up, contact, follow through

in 1, if the elbows are swinging faster than the torso, then this is a "no exceptions" whistle....whether you have:
no contact - violation
below the shoulders contact - Intentional
above the shoulders contact - Flagrant

in 2, if you have two of the three, you can deem excessive.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by tnolan

man, i have a great chart for this that really helps and it will not let me upload it. i've tried everything!

two things to think about when "deeming excessive" are:
1. elbows swinging faster than torso, and
2. wind up, contact, follow through

in 1, if the elbows are swinging faster than the torso, then this is a "no exceptions" whistle....whether you have:
no contact - violation
below the shoulders contact - Intentional
above the shoulders contact - Flagrant

in 2, if you have two of the three, you can deem excessive.

I think you have this backwards. Elbows swinging faster than torso and contact above shoulders is intentional. Wind up, contact, and follow through above shoulders is flagrant.

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I think you have this backwards. Elbows swinging faster than torso and contact above shoulders is intentional. Wind up, contact, and follow through above shoulders is flagrant.

it's based on judgement of excessive.
If it's not excessive and above shoulders, then you have intentional, even if accidental. But if you have elbows swinging faster than torso, which is excessive, and contact above shoulders then you could go flagrant....in which you could also use the windup, contact, follow through.
To clarify, I wasn't using 2 separate ideals to determine foul...but rather both of them together.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by tnolan

man, i have a great chart for this.

I would like to send this chart to my interpreter. How should I list the source?

Note: You can send me a private message if you wish.

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I would like to send this chart to my interpreter. How should I list the source?

Note: You can send me a private message if you wish.

a few people have asked...so i'll post.

credit can be given to Craig Bradley
from what i know of him, he's a 20+ yr PIAA vet from District 3 in Harrisburg, PA
not positive if he's an RI or not, but he puts out daily/weekly tips in his area, and this particular one was shared with my district RI for his tip of the day email.

[tnolan]

Was having trouble embedding but see if you can download...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bzy...p=docslist_api

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[packersowner]

Can someone help give an example of this so I can visualize in my head?

Contact with a stationary elbow may be incidental or a common foul.

[BlueDevilRef]

This would likely happen on a rebound. A1 has control, ball at chest height with both elbows out. B1 runs into A1, makes contact with elbow but nothing big and play continues unimpacted: incidental

Common foul stationary: A1 sets a screen with elbows out and extended, B1 runs into elbow only. Just a common team control foul, not intentional or flagrant