Big Sky Conference suspends women's basketball officials

[bob jenkins]

ruh-roh.

Big Sky Conference suspends women's basketball officials

[packersowner]

Directly from the NCAA Website:
NCAA women's basketball adopts new rules, including four 10-min. quarters | NCAA.com


The NCAA Playing Rules Oversight Panel approved moving the game to the new format and away from the 20-minute halves the sport has always used in NCAA competition on a conference call Monday.

The NCAA Women’s Basketball Rules Committee, which initially recommended the rule change, believes the four-quarter format will enhance the flow of the game. The change also was endorsed by the Women’s Basketball Coaches Association Board of Directors.

Teams will now reach the bonus and shoot two free throws on the fifth team foul in each quarter. Previously, teams reached a one-and-one bonus on the seventh team foul of each half and reached the double bonus (two shots) on the 10th team foul.

In the four-quarter format, team fouls reset to zero at the start of each quarter. However, if a team reaches the bonus in the fourth quarter, that team would remain in the bonus during any additional overtime
periods.


Be interesting to hear the officials side of this story.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I can't believe this happened. All overtime periods have, by rule, for over 50 years been defined as an extension of the 4th QT (in games played in QTs) and the 2nd Half (for games played in either QTs or Halfs). This is a mistake that should not happen.

MTD, Sr.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I can't believe this happened. All overtime periods have, by rule, for over 50 years been defined as an extension of the 4th QT (in games played in QTs) and the 2nd Half (for games played in either QTs or Halfs). This is a mistake that should not happen.

MTD, Sr.

I would guess that the brain freeze came about because of the more often reset as now it happens each quarter, and they just did what they did at the start of the prior three periods. But, WOW! I don't find it hard to imagine one ref having that particular brain freeze (we all have strange ones now and then), but all three?!? And neither coach went nuts?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

I would guess that the brain freeze came about because of the more often reset as now it happens each quarter, and they just did what they did at the start of the prior three periods. But, WOW! I don't find it hard to imagine one ref having that particular brain freeze (we all have strange ones now and then), but all three?!? And neither coach went nuts?

I often include this in my pre-games. It's possible for one official to have a brain fart and forget or completely misinterpret a rule, but there is no excuse for an entire crew to get it wrong.

[frezer11]

I wonder what the foul count was at the end of the 4th quarter? If it was something like 2-2, where they knew they weren't close to bonus, the foul count could potentially have been reset by the scoreboard operator (Or possibly by both that person and the official book who had misinterpreted the rule), without the officials knowledge, similar to how they would reset it after the 3rd quarter (I think it's technically periods, am I right on that?) without specifically asking. Not an excuse for the officials not eventually correcting, but in this type of scenario, I can at least understand how the OT could have been started and played for a while without being noticed. While the article says that the officials cleared the foul count, I don't know if they specifically did that, seems like a pretty easy and obvious rule to get wrong.

Another possibility is to considerer the gym. Montana State has an older overhead scoreboard that is comparatively difficult to interpret where the team fouls are at. The scoreboards behind the baselines do not display team fouls, only time and team score. If the foul count was something low, such as 2-2, They may not stop to look up at the big scoreboard if they knew they weren't close to bonus. (Okay, I admit, the gym explanation is a stretch...)

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I wonder what the foul count was at the end of the 4th quarter? If it was something like 2-2, where they knew they weren't close to bonus, the foul count could potentially have been reset by the scoreboard operator (Or possibly by both that person and the official book who had misinterpreted the rule), without the officials knowledge, similar to how they would reset it after the 3rd quarter (I think it's technically periods, am I right on that?) without specifically asking. Not an excuse for the officials not eventually correcting, but in this type of scenario, I can at least understand how the OT could have been started and played for a while without being noticed. While the article says that the officials cleared the foul count, I don't know if they specifically did that, seems like a pretty easy and obvious rule to get wrong.

Another possibility is to consider the gym. Montana State has an older overhead scoreboard that is comparatively difficult to interpret where the team fouls are at. The scoreboards behind the baselines do not display team fouls, only time and team score. If the foul count was something low, such as 2-2, They may not stop to look up at the big scoreboard if they knew they weren't close to bonus. (Okay, I admit, the gym explanation is a stretch...)

Scoreboard. Scorekeepers. There's no excuse. Period. MTDS put it best...

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

All overtime periods have, by rule, for over 50 years been defined as an extension of the 4th QT (in games played in QTs) and the 2nd Half (for games played in either QTs or Halves).

I've had an OT in one of my NCAAW games this year. I did what I do before any OT: get together with the crew and remind all of us that we have a jump ball, the teams keep shooting at the same baskets and the fouls carry over. All three shouldn't mess that up.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I wonder what the foul count was at the end of the 4th quarter?

I managed to get some screen shots. Here's the scoreboard at the end of regulation:




Here's the scoreboard 2:39 into the OT:

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

And neither coach went nuts?

There was a common foul against Montana State shortly after this where an MSU player fouled out. No one said a thing.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

I managed to get some screen shots. Here's the scoreboard at the end of regulation:




Here's the scoreboard 2:39 into the OT:







There was a common foul against Montana State shortly after this where an MSU player fouled out. No one said a thing.

Wow thanks for finding these! The fact that the foul count was 5-5 to me certainly takes away basically any explanation they could have had, this must've been a rule that none of the three knew.

It also more or less eliminates my argument that the scoreboard is hard to interpret, after you get past the individual players being listed at the bottom I suppose its pretty standard.

[referee99]

... the words 'extension of the 4th period' always come out of my mouth.

[pizanno]

At end of reg, R asked by table "do we clear the fouls?". R says no. Table says "really?". Self-doubt crept in, so R asked partners. Partners said no, but one of them said WNBA does. Now all three have doubt. They overthink the new quarter rule and clear the fouls. When the first foul of the OT occurs, R realizes they made a mistake, but didn't correct. Knew suspension was coming.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by pizanno

At end of reg, R asked by table "do we clear the fouls?". R says no. Table says "really?". Self-doubt crept in, so R asked partners. Partners said no, but one of them said WNBA does. Now all three have doubt. They overthink the new quarter rule and clear the fouls. When the first foul of the OT occurs, R realizes they made a mistake, but didn't correct. Knew suspension was coming.

Ugh. I feel horrible for them. Watched the video and after the first foul in the OT I kept thinking (out loud), "You can still get it right! You can still get it right!" Did R say why he just didn't correct it after the next foul since he realized what happened? I know it wouldn't have looked good to mess up the 1st play and then change on the 2nd but at least it would have minimized the damage.

As lurker mentioned, I'm somewhat but not completely shocked the NAU coaching staff didn't realize something was wrong. That's why all those assistants sit there (I know, not their responsibility to get the rule right).

[Nevadaref]

Just proves that coaches don't know the rules.
At an officials association meeting several years ago a D1 men's coach spoke to our group. One of the things he stated was that he didn't know the rules that well and relied upon the officials to know them and administer the game properly. He was backed up when I happened to speak to his conference supervisor several weeks later and was told that in his opinion the officials are present to do two things--look out for the safety of the players and administer the rules of the game fairly. Failing to do either would earn a suspension from him and possibly even get an official dropped from the conference.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Just proves that coaches don't know the rules.
At an officials association meeting several years ago a D1 men's coach spoke to our group. One of the things he stated was that he didn't know the rules that well and relied upon the officials to know them and administer the game properly. He was backed up when I happened to speak to his conference supervisor several weeks later and was told that in his opinion the officials are present to do two things--look out for the safety of the players and administer the rules of the game fairly. Failing to do either would earn a suspension from him and possibly even get an official dropped from the conference.

Oh, I don't disagree. In this case I'm a little surprised if only because the rule is new-ish. Again, I feel horrible for the crew. I think my conversation with my supervisor would've begun with me asking, "So, how many games am I losing?"

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by pizanno

Partners said no, but one of them said WNBA does.

Supports my theory on (many of the) rules changes.

The D-1 officials aren't good enough to remember the differences with the WNBA so they make rules changes to be consistent and let the D-3 officials (who also do HS) deal with the differences.