The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 05, 2016, 12:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,322
Big Sky Conference suspends women's basketball officials

ruh-roh.

Big Sky Conference suspends women's basketball officials
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 05, 2016, 12:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 274
Directly from the NCAA Website:
NCAA women's basketball adopts new rules, including four 10-min. quarters | NCAA.com


The NCAA Playing Rules Oversight Panel approved moving the game to the new format and away from the 20-minute halves the sport has always used in NCAA competition on a conference call Monday.

The NCAA Women’s Basketball Rules Committee, which initially recommended the rule change, believes the four-quarter format will enhance the flow of the game. The change also was endorsed by the Women’s Basketball Coaches Association Board of Directors.

Teams will now reach the bonus and shoot two free throws on the fifth team foul in each quarter. Previously, teams reached a one-and-one bonus on the seventh team foul of each half and reached the double bonus (two shots) on the 10th team foul.

In the four-quarter format, team fouls reset to zero at the start of each quarter. However, if a team reaches the bonus in the fourth quarter, that team would remain in the bonus during any additional overtime
periods.



Be interesting to hear the officials side of this story.
__________________
"They don't play the game because we show up to officiate it"
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 05, 2016, 01:20pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,810
I can't believe this happened. All overtime periods have, by rule, for over 50 years been defined as an extension of the 4th QT (in games played in QTs) and the 2nd Half (for games played in either QTs or Halfs). This is a mistake that should not happen.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Ump. Assn.
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 05, 2016, 02:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
I can't believe this happened. All overtime periods have, by rule, for over 50 years been defined as an extension of the 4th QT (in games played in QTs) and the 2nd Half (for games played in either QTs or Halfs). This is a mistake that should not happen.

MTD, Sr.
I would guess that the brain freeze came about because of the more often reset as now it happens each quarter, and they just did what they did at the start of the prior three periods. But, WOW! I don't find it hard to imagine one ref having that particular brain freeze (we all have strange ones now and then), but all three?!? And neither coach went nuts?
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 05, 2016, 02:30pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,818
Quote:
Originally Posted by so cal lurker View Post
I would guess that the brain freeze came about because of the more often reset as now it happens each quarter, and they just did what they did at the start of the prior three periods. But, WOW! I don't find it hard to imagine one ref having that particular brain freeze (we all have strange ones now and then), but all three?!? And neither coach went nuts?
I often include this in my pre-games. It's possible for one official to have a brain fart and forget or completely misinterpret a rule, but there is no excuse for an entire crew to get it wrong.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 05, 2016, 05:44pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 673
I wonder what the foul count was at the end of the 4th quarter? If it was something like 2-2, where they knew they weren't close to bonus, the foul count could potentially have been reset by the scoreboard operator (Or possibly by both that person and the official book who had misinterpreted the rule), without the officials knowledge, similar to how they would reset it after the 3rd quarter (I think it's technically periods, am I right on that?) without specifically asking. Not an excuse for the officials not eventually correcting, but in this type of scenario, I can at least understand how the OT could have been started and played for a while without being noticed. While the article says that the officials cleared the foul count, I don't know if they specifically did that, seems like a pretty easy and obvious rule to get wrong.

Another possibility is to considerer the gym. Montana State has an older overhead scoreboard that is comparatively difficult to interpret where the team fouls are at. The scoreboards behind the baselines do not display team fouls, only time and team score. If the foul count was something low, such as 2-2, They may not stop to look up at the big scoreboard if they knew they weren't close to bonus. (Okay, I admit, the gym explanation is a stretch...)

Last edited by frezer11; Tue Jan 05, 2016 at 05:46pm.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 05, 2016, 08:17pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Orange, NJ
Posts: 2,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by frezer11 View Post
I wonder what the foul count was at the end of the 4th quarter? If it was something like 2-2, where they knew they weren't close to bonus, the foul count could potentially have been reset by the scoreboard operator (Or possibly by both that person and the official book who had misinterpreted the rule), without the officials knowledge, similar to how they would reset it after the 3rd quarter (I think it's technically periods, am I right on that?) without specifically asking. Not an excuse for the officials not eventually correcting, but in this type of scenario, I can at least understand how the OT could have been started and played for a while without being noticed. While the article says that the officials cleared the foul count, I don't know if they specifically did that, seems like a pretty easy and obvious rule to get wrong.

Another possibility is to consider the gym. Montana State has an older overhead scoreboard that is comparatively difficult to interpret where the team fouls are at. The scoreboards behind the baselines do not display team fouls, only time and team score. If the foul count was something low, such as 2-2, They may not stop to look up at the big scoreboard if they knew they weren't close to bonus. (Okay, I admit, the gym explanation is a stretch...)
Scoreboard. Scorekeepers. There's no excuse. Period. MTDS put it best...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
All overtime periods have, by rule, for over 50 years been defined as an extension of the 4th QT (in games played in QTs) and the 2nd Half (for games played in either QTs or Halves).
I've had an OT in one of my NCAAW games this year. I did what I do before any OT: get together with the crew and remind all of us that we have a jump ball, the teams keep shooting at the same baskets and the fouls carry over. All three shouldn't mess that up.
__________________
"Everyone has a purpose in life, even if it's only to serve as a bad example."
"If Opportunity knocks and he's not home, Opportunity waits..."
"Don't you have to be stupid somewhere else?" "Not until 4."
"The NCAA created this mess, so let them live with it." (JRutledge)
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 07, 2016, 02:22pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Orange, NJ
Posts: 2,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by frezer11 View Post
I wonder what the foul count was at the end of the 4th quarter?
I managed to get some screen shots. Here's the scoreboard at the end of regulation:




Here's the scoreboard 2:39 into the OT:





Quote:
Originally Posted by so cal lurker View Post
And neither coach went nuts?
There was a common foul against Montana State shortly after this where an MSU player fouled out. No one said a thing.
__________________
"Everyone has a purpose in life, even if it's only to serve as a bad example."
"If Opportunity knocks and he's not home, Opportunity waits..."
"Don't you have to be stupid somewhere else?" "Not until 4."
"The NCAA created this mess, so let them live with it." (JRutledge)
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 07, 2016, 05:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
I managed to get some screen shots. Here's the scoreboard at the end of regulation:




Here's the scoreboard 2:39 into the OT:







There was a common foul against Montana State shortly after this where an MSU player fouled out. No one said a thing.
Wow thanks for finding these! The fact that the foul count was 5-5 to me certainly takes away basically any explanation they could have had, this must've been a rule that none of the three knew.

It also more or less eliminates my argument that the scoreboard is hard to interpret, after you get past the individual players being listed at the bottom I suppose its pretty standard.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 07, 2016, 10:33pm
#thereferee99
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 624
At the end of regulation..

... the words 'extension of the 4th period' always come out of my mouth.
__________________
-- #thereferee99
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 08, 2016, 03:06am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 336
spoke to one of the crew

At end of reg, R asked by table "do we clear the fouls?". R says no. Table says "really?". Self-doubt crept in, so R asked partners. Partners said no, but one of them said WNBA does. Now all three have doubt. They overthink the new quarter rule and clear the fouls. When the first foul of the OT occurs, R realizes they made a mistake, but didn't correct. Knew suspension was coming.
__________________
Trust your partners, but trust yourself more. Training, experience and intuition are your currency.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 08, 2016, 03:30am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Orange, NJ
Posts: 2,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by pizanno View Post
At end of reg, R asked by table "do we clear the fouls?". R says no. Table says "really?". Self-doubt crept in, so R asked partners. Partners said no, but one of them said WNBA does. Now all three have doubt. They overthink the new quarter rule and clear the fouls. When the first foul of the OT occurs, R realizes they made a mistake, but didn't correct. Knew suspension was coming.
Ugh. I feel horrible for them. Watched the video and after the first foul in the OT I kept thinking (out loud), "You can still get it right! You can still get it right!" Did R say why he just didn't correct it after the next foul since he realized what happened? I know it wouldn't have looked good to mess up the 1st play and then change on the 2nd but at least it would have minimized the damage.

As lurker mentioned, I'm somewhat but not completely shocked the NAU coaching staff didn't realize something was wrong. That's why all those assistants sit there (I know, not their responsibility to get the rule right).
__________________
"Everyone has a purpose in life, even if it's only to serve as a bad example."
"If Opportunity knocks and he's not home, Opportunity waits..."
"Don't you have to be stupid somewhere else?" "Not until 4."
"The NCAA created this mess, so let them live with it." (JRutledge)
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 08, 2016, 06:35am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,712
Just proves that coaches don't know the rules.
At an officials association meeting several years ago a D1 men's coach spoke to our group. One of the things he stated was that he didn't know the rules that well and relied upon the officials to know them and administer the game properly. He was backed up when I happened to speak to his conference supervisor several weeks later and was told that in his opinion the officials are present to do two things--look out for the safety of the players and administer the rules of the game fairly. Failing to do either would earn a suspension from him and possibly even get an official dropped from the conference.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 08, 2016, 06:59am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Orange, NJ
Posts: 2,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Just proves that coaches don't know the rules.
At an officials association meeting several years ago a D1 men's coach spoke to our group. One of the things he stated was that he didn't know the rules that well and relied upon the officials to know them and administer the game properly. He was backed up when I happened to speak to his conference supervisor several weeks later and was told that in his opinion the officials are present to do two things--look out for the safety of the players and administer the rules of the game fairly. Failing to do either would earn a suspension from him and possibly even get an official dropped from the conference.
Oh, I don't disagree. In this case I'm a little surprised if only because the rule is new-ish. Again, I feel horrible for the crew. I think my conversation with my supervisor would've begun with me asking, "So, how many games am I losing?"
__________________
"Everyone has a purpose in life, even if it's only to serve as a bad example."
"If Opportunity knocks and he's not home, Opportunity waits..."
"Don't you have to be stupid somewhere else?" "Not until 4."
"The NCAA created this mess, so let them live with it." (JRutledge)
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 08, 2016, 09:13am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by pizanno View Post
Partners said no, but one of them said WNBA does.
Supports my theory on (many of the) rules changes.

The D-1 officials aren't good enough to remember the differences with the WNBA so they make rules changes to be consistent and let the D-3 officials (who also do HS) deal with the differences.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ACC Suspends Miami-Duke Officials SC Official Football 16 Tue Nov 03, 2015 02:58pm
National basketball federation suspends 15 referees for wearing the wrong uniform APG Basketball 1 Thu Apr 05, 2012 09:15am
SEC suspends Fla.-Ark. officials voiceoflg Football 6 Thu Oct 22, 2009 08:14am
Big Sky Suspends 3 Men's Officials AZ_REF Basketball 99 Wed Mar 05, 2008 01:08am
Big Sky suspends three officials for error Nevadaref Basketball 13 Wed Mar 01, 2006 05:12pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:35pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1