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Old Thu Dec 24, 2015, 01:22am
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not a fan...

Sometimes when I watch the big time games the officiating has been very good. For the most part the Cal vs Virgina game was at a high level for example. But I've seen some mid-range to lower div 1 games this year where the officiating has just been poor and the problem is this NCAA directive about cleaning up movement and cutting back on physical play. I just don't see any consistency and as a fan it is making potentially good basketball turn into a war of attrition with teams going away from any aggression on D. Basketball should be entertaining and good for the fans. Players are upset, fans are upset. Teams going into bonus FTs with more than 10 minutes left. Refs calling rebound fouls when you can easily let those go. A defensive player has position, gets the rebound, then you can just ignore the minimal contact from behind. A lack of flow, off ball fouls being called and the tv people are showing the replay and they can't understand why a foul is being called away from the ball with seemingly no contact or in such a way that it was so minor as to not effect the play. Offensive player makes drive, there may be contact. Is it illegal contact? Why do you have to call a foul just because there is contact? How are players supposed to play D? You can't use your hands, guy gets passed you, teammate goes to help and offensive player makes a bit of contact into the D. Whistle on defensive player. I was rooting for a team and there was a player who had 12 fts because of that and even I was thinking half of them were bad calls that didn't need to be made. The big game refs don't call a lot of that. I learned that early on that you don't need to blow your whistle everytime there is contact and I don't get why refs at the NCAA div 1 level hasn't learned that and in part I blame the NCAA with all the new rules. Games should not be a chore to watch and that's what it is turning into for too many games.

Last edited by mutantducky; Thu Dec 24, 2015 at 01:26am.
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Old Thu Dec 24, 2015, 01:33am
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and don't give me that fanboy BS. People are always going to gripe about the refs, but I'm sorry too many games I've seen are boring with no flow and it is because of how the games are being called. You take two teams now and have the refs, say from the 90's ref it, and I guarantee you it would be a much more entertaining game with players, fans and yes the refs happy to about how it was played.
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 24, 2015, 01:51am
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Readable version:

Sometimes officiating in the big-time games has been very good. For examples the Cal-Virginia game was refereed at a high level, but I've seen some mid-major and lower level Division 1 games this year where the officiating has been very poor.

The problem are the NCAA directives about allowing freedom of movement and cutting back on physical play. However I do not see any consistency between games and from a fan perspective it is turning potentially good basketball games into wars of attrition with teams holding back from playing aggressive defense.

Basketball should be entertaining and good for the fans. Players are upset, fans are upset. Teams are shooting the bonus with more than 10 minutes remaining in the half. Refs are calling rebound fouls when they could have easily let them go. If a defensive player has position and gets the rebound then you can ignore the minimal body contact.

There is a lack of flow in the games -- off ball fouls are being called and when the replay is shown the tv commentators cannot understand why a foul is being called with so little contact or so little effect on the play. When an offensive player drives, it is likely there will be contact. Is it illegal contact? Maybe. But why does a ref have to call a foul if there is contact? How are players supposed to play defense now? You can't use your hands. If your man beats you and a teammate goes to help and the offensive player makes a little contact with him then your teammate gets called for the foul!

I was rooting for a team and there was a player who was driving into defenders and getting bailed out with the foul call -- even I was thinking half of them were bad calls that didn't need to be made. I learned early on that you do not need to blow your whistle every time there is contact and I do not understand why Division 1 referees have not learned that. Again, in part I blame the NCAA with all their new rules. Games should not be a chore to watch and that is what it is turning into for too many games.

EDIT: And don't give me that fanboy BS. There are people who will always gripe about the refs, but there have been too many games that are boring with no flow and it is because of how the games are being called. Now if you take two teams from the present day and have 90's-era refs work the game -- I guarantee you it would be a much more entertaining game with players, fans, and yes even the refs happy about how it was played.

Last edited by AremRed; Thu Dec 24, 2015 at 01:55am.
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Old Thu Dec 24, 2015, 02:25am
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Still not readable.
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Old Thu Dec 24, 2015, 08:05am
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All I'm reading is that you like it the way it was the last 5-10 years. That's your opinion. Me? I'm seeing cleaner drives to the basket, more jump shots, and some sweet kickback three's. 30s shot clock has helped, too. And I think the players and coaches are mostly adjusting. And officiating has become less subjective (and thus a little easier). What is there not to like about all of this?


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Old Thu Dec 24, 2015, 08:23am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mutantducky View Post
and don't give me that fanboy BS. People are always going to gripe about the refs, but I'm sorry too many games I've seen are boring with no flow and it is because of how the games are being called. You take two teams now and have the refs, say from the 90's ref it, and I guarantee you it would be a much more entertaining game with players, fans and yes the refs happy to about how it was played.
Who is responsible for rule changes, coaches/ADs or basketball officials?

What do the announcers opinions of plays have to do with the validity of a call? Why did you bring them into the conversation.


What do the games you officiate look like? Are fans, coaches, and players happy the product you put on the court?
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Old Thu Dec 24, 2015, 09:13am
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Who is responsible for rule changes, coaches/ADs or basketball officials?

What do the announcers opinions of plays have to do with the validity of a call? Why did you bring them into the conversation.


What do the games you officiate look like? Are fans, coaches, and players happy the product you put on the court?
Let's add on top of that the games are sloppy because the teams are so crappy and stupid they can't adjust to the officiating and/or then cannot figure out what the threshold of a foul is. So is that really of the officials fault or the players?
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Old Thu Dec 24, 2015, 09:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mutantducky View Post
I learned that early on that you don't need to blow your whistle everytime there is contact and I don't get why refs at the NCAA div 1 level hasn't learned that and in part I blame the NCAA with all the new rules.
really? why do you always need to put in some snarky comment like this?

The directive of the NCAA is to call more fouls when there is illegal contact. There is a lot of pressure to make sure the 'absolutes' are being called... two hands on the ball handler, a stayed hand, etc. In addition, contact against cutters is a huge point of emphasis this year. This is the year of "Freedom of Movement."

If you don't like it, that's okay. But don't blame the officials making the calls they are being told to make.
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Old Thu Dec 24, 2015, 09:31am
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Originally Posted by jpgc99 View Post
If you don't like it, that's okay. But don't blame the officials making the calls they are being told to make.
By the coaches who make the rule changes each year. The directive comes straight from the coaches. NOT THE FANS.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 24, 2015, 09:45am
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Originally Posted by mutantducky View Post
sometimes when i watch the big time games the playing has been very good. For the most part the cal vs virgina game was at a high level for example. But i've seen some mid-range to lower div 1 games this year where the playing has just been poor and the problem is this ncaa directive about cleaning up movement and cutting back on physical play. I just don't see any consistency and as a fan it is making potentially good basketball turn into a war of attrition with teams going away from any aggression on d. Basketball should be entertaining and good for the fans. Players are upset, fans are upset. Teams going into bonus fts with more than 10 minutes left. Players committing unneeded rebound fouls when there's no chance to get the ball. A defensive player has position, gets the rebound, then you can just don't make unneeded contact from behind. A lack of flow, off ball fouls being called and the tv people are showing the replay and they can't understand why a player would commit a foul away from the ball. Offensive player makes drive, there may be contact. It is now illegal contact. Why do you have to commit a foul just when you know a foul will be called on this automatic contact? Why can't players learn to play d? You can't use your hands, guy gets passed you, teammate goes to help and offensive player makes a bit of contact into the d. Whistle on defensive player. I was rooting for a team and there was a player who had 12 fts because of that and even i was thinking half of them were bad plays that didn't need to be made. The big game players don't commit a lot of that. I learned that early on that the refs are required to blow your whistle everytime there is this type of contact and i don't get why players at the ncaa div 1 level hasn't learned that and in part i blame the ncaa with all the new rules. Games should not be a chore to watch and that's what it is turning into for too many games.
fify
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Old Thu Dec 24, 2015, 09:57am
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
fify
awesome
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 24, 2015, 10:05am
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There, there, get it off your chest, son...

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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 24, 2015, 10:20am
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Blah blah blah, whine about refs calling game the right way, blah blah blah.


I wish I had a cool signature
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 24, 2015, 10:35am
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The mutant strikes again....always entertaining...
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Old Thu Dec 24, 2015, 10:42am
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Implementing Change

What would one reasonably expect? A period of transition where implementation occurs. An adjustment period for all stakeholders, where consistency is developed over a period of time.

Crew A and Crew B may call game differently. Preseason v League v Postseason may be called inconsistently. Feedback is given, assignors give support to those on the right path. Coaches gain trust. Coaches coach their players. Players adjust. Game evolves.
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