Delayed entry after inbounds pass...

[OrStBballRef]

Boys JV2 game last night. 2Q home team is in-bounding the ball on the baseline. I notice the player (H24) in-bounding the ball is taking a long time to come back onto the court after he throws the ball in. In this particular play before I can say or do anything ball is knocked out on the far side of the key and I'm now in-bounding the ball from the other side of the key.

Same player in-bounds the ball and throws it in to a player right by the 3 point line near the sideline. The ball is then passed FT extended and is about ready to come into the post and I open up my position to view the post play. I notice H24 still hasn't come back in yet. He's making no attempt to enter the play he's still standing OOB.

Ball comes into the post play (in my primary) and H24 is still OOB. The player guarding the in-bounds pass is still guarding H24 and can't move to cover the post play close by as he's still watching/guarding the OOB player. He eventually makes a move to come in but moves directly towards the post player/action and just barely gets his toes over the line and remains OOB. I figured this was about 3-5 seconds based on my internal clock and external counts with no attempt on his part to get back in....he wasn't caught in a bunch of players and trying to move around to get back in etc...he just didn't move or make an attempt to come back in the court.

So I issued a T for purposely delaying return to the court. I believe this is the first time I've issued a T for this... Home team coach wasn't happy 'We've run that play for 9 years etc...you should have warned him/me etc...'

Questions I have are:
1) For those of you who have called this do you have a set amount of time in your head before you make this call? Or is it a strictly HTBT situation?
2) Would you warn the player/coach first to get back in bounds immediately after the pass?

[HokiePaul]

If I notice a player just hanging out after a throw in (not purposely delaying but just oblivious/unaware and in no hurry to enter the court), I'd probably remind him not to delay returning to the court if he came for another throw in.

Fortunatly I have never had this call. I think that the time would be less important than the intent. I'm going to give a lot of leeway if they are just observing the play (it may not even be "purposly delaying" anyway if they just "forgot" to step onto the floor). However, if it is part of a designed play to trick the defense, then there would be very little leeway as it would clearly be purposely delaying.

[bballref3966]

I called this once this year. Thrower ran all the way to the other side of the lane OOB behind a screen to catch a pass in an advantageous position. T.

Nothing else to call there, but a call had to be made. Granted, if he doesn't end up in the advantageous position, I probably just give him a warning at the next dead ball. But in this case, the act that the rule intends to penalize blatantly showed itself.

Coach wasn't happy at first but understood the explanation. I bet his players never try this again.

[Dad]

A player shall now purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

Coaches comment says it all. Good call.

I'd maybe give the player a, "Get into bounds after you throw it in" after the first play if I thought he was spacing out. On purpose? Nope. T

[MechanicGuy]

Originally Posted by Dad

Coaches comment says it all. Good call.

Yup. Coached essentially admitted it was intentional and thus completely deserving of a T.

That said, I wish they'd change this call and make it a violation, matching the penalty for leaving the court.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

I wish they'd change this call and make it a violation, matching the penalty for leaving the court.

I made an official suggestion to the NFHS for this this past off season. It made it all the way to the final agenda for the new rules committees, but didn't make it any further than that.

Delete: Rule 10 Section 3 PLAYER TECHNICAL- Art. 2 …Purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

Note: Delete language from PLAYER TECHNICAL and move to Rule 9 Violations and Penalties Section 3

OUT OF BOUNDS Art.3 … A player shall not leave the court for an unauthorized reason nor shall a player purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

Rationale: Change 10-3-2 from a technical foul to a violation. Purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds should carry the same penalty as leaving the court for an unauthorized reason

[Dad]

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

Yup. Coached essentially admitted it was intentional and thus completely deserving of a T.

That said, I wish they'd change this call and make it a violation, matching the penalty for leaving the court.

This stupid call, or at least calls like it will forever scar me.

Second varsity game this year working with a "20-year" guy and he wacks a kid for running out of bounds trying to run around a defender. I just about lost it when at half-time he says, "Nah, he ran back onto the court I had to T him."

This is easily my biggest pet-peeve call of all time.

As a player, in a HS semi-final state game I cherry picked. I catch the ball and the official wacked me for "deceiving" the players. Probably should've ejected me for my choice words in how I said I never left the court. He said it didn't matter. My next few words got me my only ejection in HS ball.

Forget this call.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Dad

This stupid call, or at least calls like it will forever scar me.

Second varsity game this year working with a "20-year" guy and he wacks a kid for running out of bounds trying to run around a defender. I just about lost it when at half-time he says, "Nah, he ran back onto the court I had to T him."

This is easily my biggest pet-peeve call of all time.

As a player, in a HS semi-final state game I cherry picked. I catch the ball and the official wacked me for "deceiving" the players. Probably should've ejected me for my choice words in how I said I never left the court. He said it didn't matter. My next few words got me my only ejection in HS ball.

Forget this call.

This is a violation, not a T, so he actually misapplied the rule.

What other rules do you suggest we set aside and "forget"?

[Dad]

Originally Posted by SC Official

This is a violation, not a T, so he actually misapplied the rule.

What other rules do you suggest we set aside and "forget"?

Red: Hence my following sentence. I was aware.

Green: I'm not setting aside anything.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Dad

Red: Hence my following sentence. I was aware.

You never said anything about the correct ruling. You only said that your partner's call was a pet peeve.

Green: I'm not setting aside anything.

You said "forget this call." Elaborate on what you mean by that if you're not implying that the rule should be ignored.

Originally Posted by SC Official

You said "forget this call." Elaborate on what you mean by that if you're not implying that the rule should be ignored.

He is not saying he is not going to follow the rule, he is saying he hates that a referee whacked a kid this year for simply running out of bounds and hated when a referee whacked him for cherry-picking as a player. Basically he hates when a referee misapplies or does not understand the spirit of the rule.

"Forget that" is a more PC version of saying "F--- that".

[Freddy]

Tactic by newer coach several years ago made it waaaaay too easy for even newer official:
Throw-in by A1 from his own endline. He releases the ball and just stands there rather than entering the court after the throw-in. Coach yells, "Not yet...Not yet...Not yet...Not yet...NOW!" Thrower-inner steps onto the court and receives pass for easy, uncontested shot from the lower block. Newer official, taken by surprise by the admittedly rare situation, finally blows whistle and pauses momentarily. Gives the T signal.
Late, but right. Just took a little time to register what was going on.
The coach, of course, had no clue . . .

[j51969]

Originally Posted by Dad

This stupid call, or at least calls like it will forever scar me.

Second varsity game this year working with a "20-year" guy and he wacks a kid for running out of bounds trying to run around a defender. I just about lost it when at half-time he says, "Nah, he ran back onto the court I had to T him."

This is easily my biggest pet-peeve call of all time.

As a player, in a HS semi-final state game I cherry picked. I catch the ball and the official wacked me for "deceiving" the players. Probably should've ejected me for my choice words in how I said I never left the court. He said it didn't matter. My next few words got me my only ejection in HS ball.

Forget this call.

+1

Many years ago it was a technical foul to leave the court for an unathorized reason to avoid a 3 sec call. Eventually the FED changed it to a violation in 9.3.3 Sit A. Just a another punishment doesn't fit the crime senario. I don't know why the OP above doesn't warrant the same consideration. IMO it should be moved from 10.3.2 and added in rule 9 along with the other.