Clock didn't start on a last Second Shot

[crosscountry55]

The OP stated that the clock operator had become a known liability by the end of the game.

Soooo....I completely agree with the idea of a manual count in the closing seconds of a game like this. That's good preventive officiating. Make it a visible count so that you could later defend your action/decision to an assignor, coach, etc. The first thing they always check is the video.

[Dad]

You should never, ever, manually count and blow the whistle to end the game before the horn sounds in this scenario.

If you do, you may as well flip off the coach while you're at it.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Dad

You should never, ever, manually count and blow the whistle to end the game before the horn sounds in this scenario.

If you do, you may as well flip off the coach while you're at it.

This is not proper advice nor supported by rule. It's not ideal but teams don't get multiple attempts simply because the clock didn't start. I also won't stop play if a team has an imminent opportunity to score. In this case one coach or the other will "feel" ripped off. That's not my concern, and neither should it be yours.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by deecee

This is not proper advice nor supported by rule. It's not ideal but teams don't get multiple attempts simply because the clock didn't start. I also won't stop play if a team has an imminent opportunity to score. In this case one coach or the other will "feel" ripped off. That's not my concern, and neither should it be yours.

There's no way you believe what you posted. If these scenarios aren't your concern then why are you an official?

This is never happening in one of my games. Close game with a probable one possession to go to determine the game and you think I'm going to let the table screw it up? Fix the issue earlier or do it then, but my clock is starting when it should for this play.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Dad

There's no way you believe what you posted. If these scenarios aren't your concern then why are you an official?

This is never happening in one of my games. Close game with a probable one possession to go to determine the game and you think I'm going to let the table screw it up? Fix the issue earlier or do it then, but my clock is starting when it should for this play.

What do you do when it doesn't? Under a second to play, shot goes in versus miss?

I like that you think you can control what another person is going to do with utmost certainty.

As to coaches feelings, they are not my concern and they shouldn't be any officials concern. That's why I do this.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by deecee

What do you do when it doesn't? Under a second to play, shot goes in versus miss?

I like that you think you can control what another person is going to do with utmost certainty.

As to coaches feelings, they are not my concern and they shouldn't be any officials concern. That's why I do this.

Under a second, I'm counting it out. But with 8 seconds left, I'm stopping it immediately and fixing it. Counting it out from 8 seconds and blowing it dead before the clock gets to 0 when the team IS likely using the clock to know how much time they have left is a horrible idea.

At some point, you should fix it. At some point, you should count it out. What point that should be is certainly open for debate.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Under a second, I'm counting it out. But with 8 seconds left, I'm stopping it immediately and fixing it. Counting it out from 8 seconds and blowing it dead before the clock gets to 0 when the team IS likely using the clock to know how much time they have left is a horrible idea.

At some point, you should fix it. At some point, you should count it out. What point that should be is certainly open for debate.

Where did 8 seconds come from. I used 3.6 and 2.6 as my baseline.

[j51969]

Originally Posted by Dad

There's no way you believe what you posted. If these scenarios aren't your concern then why are you an official?

This is never happening in one of my games. Close game with a probable one possession to go to determine the game and you think I'm going to let the table screw it up? Fix the issue earlier or do it then, but my clock is starting when it should for this play.

I would never say never

Varisty level or above....

IMO all Deecee is saying is that we can only do what is supported by rule. We can't just interject what we think is fair. Adversity is part of the game and life. Sometimes it is what it is....

We are fair and impartial, and fair doesn't always mean equal

[Dad]

Originally Posted by j51969

I would never say never

Varisty level or above....

IMO all Deecee is saying is that we can only do what is supported by rule. We can't just interject what we think is fair. Adversity is part of the game and life. Sometimes it is what it is....

We are fair and impartial, and fair doesn't always mean equal

Incompetence of an official isn't fair to anyone involved in the game.

And yes, never. There are some things I just won't ever let happen.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Dad

Incompetence of an official isn't fair to anyone involved in the game.

And yes, never. There are some things I just won't ever let happen.

I have to say good luck with that.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by j51969

I would never say never

Varisty level or above....

IMO all Deecee is saying is that we can only do what is supported by rule. We can't just interject what we think is fair. Adversity is part of the game and life. Sometimes it is what it is....

We are fair and impartial, and fair doesn't always mean equal

Bingo. The manual count in this scenario is clearly the most fair thing to do. Will you have to deal with a coach who's upset afterwards? Yup, almost certainly, but I'll be able to sleep at night knowing the way I handled it, while not preferred, was fair. Keep in mind that there is no provision to put expired time back on the clock, so if you kill it with 3 seconds or whatever it was because the clock didn't start on time, you can't tell the timer, "Ok, make sure you get it this time," and proceed with 3 seconds, at least SOME time needed to run off the clock, which means you're almost certainly screwing over the offensive team by giving them less time and making them inbound again, after the defense has already seen their inbound play. Just because it seems easier to you to have the game end with a horn does not mean it's fair.

Also agree with Cameron, what I just said is up to a point. With 10 seconds left, I might be able to stop it and get things right, depends on the situation.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

The OP stated that the clock operator had become a known liability by the end of the game.

Soooo....I completely agree with the idea of a manual count in the closing seconds of a game like this. That's good preventive officiating. Make it a visible count so that you could later defend your action/decision to an assignor, coach, etc. The first thing they always check is the video.

We were having clock issues in our JV/V DH last night; don't know if was b/c of the operator or b/c the switch was malfunctioning. My partner terminated one quarter in the JV game when the clock didn't start.