Clock didn't start on a last Second Shot

[Dad]

Originally Posted by j51969

I would never say never

Varisty level or above....

IMO all Deecee is saying is that we can only do what is supported by rule. We can't just interject what we think is fair. Adversity is part of the game and life. Sometimes it is what it is....

We are fair and impartial, and fair doesn't always mean equal

Incompetence of an official isn't fair to anyone involved in the game.

And yes, never. There are some things I just won't ever let happen.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Dad

Incompetence of an official isn't fair to anyone involved in the game.

And yes, never. There are some things I just won't ever let happen.

I have to say good luck with that.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by deecee

What do you do when it doesn't? Under a second to play, shot goes in versus miss?

I like that you think you can control what another person is going to do with utmost certainty.

As to coaches feelings, they are not my concern and they shouldn't be any officials concern. That's why I do this.

Under a second, I'm counting it out. But with 8 seconds left, I'm stopping it immediately and fixing it. Counting it out from 8 seconds and blowing it dead before the clock gets to 0 when the team IS likely using the clock to know how much time they have left is a horrible idea.

At some point, you should fix it. At some point, you should count it out. What point that should be is certainly open for debate.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Under a second, I'm counting it out. But with 8 seconds left, I'm stopping it immediately and fixing it. Counting it out from 8 seconds and blowing it dead before the clock gets to 0 when the team IS likely using the clock to know how much time they have left is a horrible idea.

At some point, you should fix it. At some point, you should count it out. What point that should be is certainly open for debate.

Where did 8 seconds come from. I used 3.6 and 2.6 as my baseline.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by deecee

Where did 8 seconds come from. I used 3.6 and 2.6 as my baseline.

All my statements were based off 4.6 seconds.

This is kinda cute.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Dad

All my statements were based off 4.6 seconds.

This is kinda cute.

I meant 4.6. After the first stoppage I would inform both teams to play to the whistle. I'm not going to risk 3 stoppages of play to remove 1 second at a time. 3.6 seconds is a lot of time, but then again it isn't and to stop and remove more time after we just addressed this is not fair to the team with the ball (assuming they are on offense and are behind).

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by j51969

I would never say never

Varisty level or above....

IMO all Deecee is saying is that we can only do what is supported by rule. We can't just interject what we think is fair. Adversity is part of the game and life. Sometimes it is what it is....

We are fair and impartial, and fair doesn't always mean equal

Bingo. The manual count in this scenario is clearly the most fair thing to do. Will you have to deal with a coach who's upset afterwards? Yup, almost certainly, but I'll be able to sleep at night knowing the way I handled it, while not preferred, was fair. Keep in mind that there is no provision to put expired time back on the clock, so if you kill it with 3 seconds or whatever it was because the clock didn't start on time, you can't tell the timer, "Ok, make sure you get it this time," and proceed with 3 seconds, at least SOME time needed to run off the clock, which means you're almost certainly screwing over the offensive team by giving them less time and making them inbound again, after the defense has already seen their inbound play. Just because it seems easier to you to have the game end with a horn does not mean it's fair.

Also agree with Cameron, what I just said is up to a point. With 10 seconds left, I might be able to stop it and get things right, depends on the situation.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by deecee

I meant 4.6. After the first stoppage I would inform both teams to play to the whistle. I'm not going to risk 3 stoppages of play to remove 1 second at a time. 3.6 seconds is a lot of time, but then again it isn't and to stop and remove more time after we just addressed this is not fair to the team with the ball (assuming they are on offense and are behind).

Informing both teams to play the whistle and not the horn completely changes the scenario, and could very well be a good option.

Though, if I'm this worried my clock is incompetent, I'm finding someone who can press a button when I chop.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Dad

Informing both teams to play the whistle and not the horn completely changes the scenario, and could very well be a good option.

Though, if I'm this worried my clock is incompetent, I'm finding someone who can press a button when I chop.

I agree, but by this point in the game that's to late.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by deecee

I agree, but by this point in the game that's to late.

OP said they talked to the table numerous times. Sounds like the clock wasn't started on time most plays. I just don't think you should get this far with the same person operating the clock.

If for whatever reason you are stuck with that clock, then yes going off the whistle is fine if both teams know what's going on. My original response was to just winging it and blowing your whistle, saying the game is over, and having the offense player screaming he has two more seconds to make a move.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by deecee

Where did 8 seconds come from. I used 3.6 and 2.6 as my baseline.

We agree.

I just made it up as an example. I didn't recall any specific times being mentioned outside of the original play...I didn't reread the entire thread.

I only intended to show that with a "lot" of time left it should be fixed and with very little time left it should be counted out. Where it should change from one to the other is an interesting point. At 4.6 -> 3.6, I'd agree with fixing it. If it started at 2.0, probably not....just count it out since by the time you know it didn't start, it should have been at 1.5 or lower.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

We agree.

I just made it up as an example. I didn't recall any specific times being mentioned outside of the original play...I didn't reread the entire thread.

I only intended to show that with a "lot" of time left it should be fixed and with very little time left it should be counted out. Where it should change from one to the other is an interesting point. At 4.6 -> 3.6, I'd agree with fixing it. If it started at 2.0, probably not....just count it out since by the time you know it didn't start, it should have been at 1.5 or lower.

With 2 seconds left, the players aren't looking at the clock. They know there's 2 seconds. With 8, they'll watch it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

With 2 seconds left, the players aren't looking at the clock. They know there's 2 seconds. With 8, they'll watch it.

Precisely my point. But what about 3? or 4? or 5? At what point does the situation change?