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-   -   Four’s Company ... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/100417-four-s-company.html)

BillyMac Sun Nov 29, 2015 04:48pm
Vote Early, Vote Often ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 971122)
What do the coaches want?
In Connecticut, the coaches (all coaches, winners, losers, in the state tournament, not in the state tournament) vote for state tournament officials. The more votes an official receives, the deeper that official goes into the state tournament.

jpgc99 Sun Nov 29, 2015 08:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 971111)
Such an article would be directed at (get ready for a surprise) coaches. Here, in Connecticut, it's the coaches, actually the basketball coaches in the state coaches association, that are preventing the expansion of three person crews throughout most of the state.

The coaches lobby is very strong here in Connecticut, and the state interscholastic sports governing body doesn't take a step without their approval. The basketball coaches are lead by the winningest coaches, they're the most vocal, and for the most part, they all play very up tempo, full court, in your face, man to man defense, and they all believe (right, or wrong) that a third official will stifle this coaching philosophy.

It's not the athletic directors, or principals. It's not about money (it may be a little bit about money). It's not about training officials (just give us some lead time). The winningest, and most powerful, coaches don't want three person crews, so they don't get three person crews.
I bet there are more incorrect fouls being called than being missed. In two person, you have to guess a lot. In my experience, guessing usually leads to more incorrect calls than more incorrect no calls.

If I were in Connecticut, I'd put a long film together highlighting all of the incorrect calls that are a result of having poor coverage from only two officials. Have your board send that to the coaches.

Then you can take that official that is asked to sit around and watch a game and actually put him to work on the floor.

BlueDevilRef Sun Nov 29, 2015 09:09pm
[QUOTE=jpgc99;971139]I bet there are more incorrect fouls being called than being missed. In two person, you have to guess a lot.

Wrong.

If you are covering your PCA, you aren't guessing. Call what you see, no guessing allowed. Period.


I wish I had a cool signature

Rich Sun Nov 29, 2015 09:31pm
[QUOTE=BlueDevilRef;971140]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgc99 (Post 971139)
I bet there are more incorrect fouls being called than being missed. In two person, you have to guess a lot.

Wrong.

If you are covering your PCA, you aren't guessing. Call what you see, no guessing allowed. Period.


I wish I had a cool signature
Right. I have a bridge to sell right over there......

BlueDevilRef Sun Nov 29, 2015 09:38pm
Ok, glad someone caught my tongue in cheekness. But seriously, I don't guess. I call what I see as I see it and process it in my head. I might be wrong bc I saw it incorrectly but I don't guess. That can get you in a world of hurt.

I believe the statement "in two person, you have to guess a lot" is just an excuse to try to validate 3 man. I'd love to work more three but that doesn't mean that a two man game can't be called well by those officials.


I wish I had a cool signature

Rich Sun Nov 29, 2015 09:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef (Post 971142)
Ok, glad someone caught my tongue in cheekness. But seriously, I don't guess. I call what I see as I see it and process it in my head. I might be wrong bc I saw it incorrectly but I don't guess. That can get you in a world of hurt.

I believe the statement "in two person, you have to guess a lot" is just an excuse to try to validate 3 man. I'd love to work more three but that doesn't mean that a two man game can't be called well by those officials.


I wish I had a cool signature
Oh, I called 2-man for over 25 years. You do have to make an *educated* guess from time to time. Player trips going around the corner and neither official sees it as well as you'd like, you can either put air in the whistle for a foul that you *know* happened but maybe didn't see as you liked *or* you can put air in the whistle for the technical foul that will come otherwise.

2-person was easier back in the 80s. The game just wasn't as fast and physical then. Back then 4 officials were used in HS varsity football games and now no such game would be worked with 4 officials. Basketball will get to the point (and is in many areas) where no varsity game will be called with 2. Has just taken longer than I'd like.

But for me, I'm 100% 3-person as of this season. Around here I can pick and choose what I work and I just don't work conferences that still hire 2 officials.

BlueDevilRef Sun Nov 29, 2015 09:55pm
I do envy that. I am new enough I don't get any of the big conf games which have three man. In softball, where it's not really needed, we don't do 3 man until district finals. Always a fun pregame to make sure everyone is on same page after not having done it since playoffs a year ago.


I wish I had a cool signature

Dad Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef (Post 971144)
I do envy that. I am new enough I don't get any of the big conf games which have three man. In softball, where it's not really needed, we don't do 3 man until district finals. Always a fun pregame to make sure everyone is on same page after not having done it since playoffs a year ago.


I wish I had a cool signature
Dang, we 3man 2a JV around here. Only time it doesn't happen is about once a year where everyone everywhere wanted to have a game. Some freshman games are worked by three officials also. It's rare, but definitely needed for crazy rivalries.

Refhoop Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 971143)

2-person was easier back in the 80s. The game just wasn't as fast and physical then.
Officiating the UCLA 1-4 or the flex offense probably was a little easier.
The dribble drive attack motion offense w/ kick outs for 3's makes the game more challenging for any crew of officials.

HokiePaul Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:56am
I didn't get the Three's company reference (I've heard of the show but it was before my time and I've never seen it). Other than that though it seemed good and well written.

Gutierrez7 Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokiePaul (Post 971185)
I didn't get the Three's company reference (I've heard of the show but it was before my time and I've never seen it). Other than that though it seemed good and well written.
Thanks Paul for making me feel really old and I think I'm young. Ha ha.

I was in love with Suzanne Somers, long before the "Thighmaster". Oops you probably don't remember that either. Ha Ha. To bad.

BillyMac Mon Nov 30, 2015 06:20pm
Children Should Be Seen And Not Heard ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokiePaul (Post 971185)
I didn't get the Three's company reference (I've heard of the show but it was before my time and I've never seen it).
Shut up.

BillyMac Mon Nov 30, 2015 06:22pm
Enjoy Gutierrez7 ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutierrez7 (Post 971188)
I was in love with Suzanne Somers, long before the "Thighmaster".
https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.Mbe...=0&w=300&h=300

griblets Mon Nov 30, 2015 06:29pm
Grammar Nazi
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 971074)
I'm about the most stuck-up grammar nazi there is on this Forum. Ending sentences with prepositions, for instance, is something up with which we ought not put.
The grammar nazis I know would never use back-to-back prepositions in a sentence. :eek:

so cal lurker Mon Nov 30, 2015 06:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by griblets (Post 971246)
The grammar nazis I know would never use back-to-back prepositions in a sentence. :eek:
Most grammar nazis I know are like TV pundits talking about referees: they rely upon myths about about grammar that they picked up in childhood and never learned the real rules . . .


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