So if I run a red light and the guy I cut off gets out of his car to physically assault me; I'll be charged with assault.

I don't know what this has to do with the conversation.

There was a held ball, A11 shoves B31, B31 throws a punch at A11. That is a fight and A11's actions are deemed to be part of the fight. It is that simple.

Officials who think it is a natural reaction to shove another player after wrestling over a held ball are not officials I want working with me in tough, physical ball games.

If they fight they must go!

Just trying to clarify what is and is not a fight aside from the above case - which is "simple"!
No argument about running an instigator or someone fighting.

+1

Punishment does not fit the crime
 

I'm not a fan of the way this rule is written either. If A1 pushes B1, A1's fate rests in how B1 reacts....Not a huge fan of that.

The way the rule is written, A2 verbally insulting B2 which results in B2 punching A2 in the face means they both get tossed. Just doesn't feel like the punishment fits the crime.

Why not? Keep your hands to yourself and your mouth shut.

Yep!


I wish I had a cool signature

So I can insult you in a way that would start a fight. Just imagine what a player could say to someone like racial comments, personal comments or even sexual type comments that would all be inappropriate and now that person you said those things to gets to hit you as a result (as they would in just about any other situations in life) and now you are absolved because you did not throw a punch? Not sure I like that logic. This makes it easy.

Peace

Ideally, yes. But people aren't robots.

Well, technically, saying things like that constitute a flagrant tech and an ejection by themselves. "Vulgar" and "abusive" come to mind. No punches necessary.

Addressing the "other situations in life" comment.....Unfortunately its not illegal to be a jerk and say rude things. It is illegal to assault someone, however. What that person said to provoke you assuredly doesn't matter in the eyes of the law.

Ahh the good old "people aren't robots" argument to argue against crappy behavior in life and basketball games. Robots that act out of line get decommissioned. To bad we can't do that with a-holes.

Robots don't really "act out of line." They might not function as they were designed to, but to say robots "act out of line" implies they are acting with malice or ill intent. We haven't gotten to that point in society yet. ;)

You are right, then do not say anything at all. If you say nothing, no one can misinterpret or even react to you in such a way where you would get ejected. It is pretty simple.

Yes, but if you get a reaction you incited the fight and you are apart of fighting, not just a simple flagrant act.

If you say certain things to people, you can and will be charged with a crime and certainly will be if there is some kind of violence that ensues. You are not exactly accurate. But this is not a court of law, this is a game. The rule is simple and I think you will be better off just knowing the rule and enforcing it than trying to figure out "why" for everything of the justice in everything is often futile.

Peace

It is pretty simple. And maybe that is why it is written the way it is written. The wording makes it pretty black and white. I don't agree with it.

The point I was making is that if the comments are so over the top as you stated, that person is being tossed regardless of the other player's reaction. If the comments aren't vulgar or abusive, that person's ability to stay in the game rests upon his opponent's reaction. Again, we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether that is a proper punishment.

I refuse to be the person who blindly accepts something without either understanding it or questioning it. The rules should be enforced as they are written, but that shouldn't ever deter someone from trying to discuss the validity or reason for a rule.