Scrimmage not so fun

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

At least in a real game there is consequences.

Good point. I'm not sure how the coach, athletic director, principal, or the Connecticut state interscholastic sports governing body, would handle a fight in an intersquad scrimmage, but I know how I, as on official, would handle it, just like it was a real game. Flagrant fouls, disqualifications, ejections of coaches (if warranted by rule), game reports to my assignment commissioner, and to the state interscholastic sports governing body. And if the coaches involved, or the site director, didn't comply with any of the penalties I imposed during the scrimmage, then I'm heading out the door, and I'll worry about my check later.

By the way, that's exactly how I would handle a fight in an intrasquad scrimmage.

Back to reality. I don't believe that I charged a technical foul in a scrimmage in thirty-five years. But there can always be a first time.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Good point. I'm not sure how the coach, athletic director, principal, or the Connecticut state interscholastic sports governing body, would handle a fight in an intersquad scrimmage, but I know how I, as on official, would handle it, just like it was a real game. Flagrant fouls, disqualifications, ejections of coaches (if warranted by rule), game reports to my assignment commissioner, and to the state interscholastic sports governing body. And if the coaches involved, or the site director, didn't comply with any of the penalties I imposed during the scrimmage, then I'm heading out the door, and I'll worry about my check later.

By the way, that's exactly how I would handle a fight in an intrasquad scrimmage.

Back to reality. I don't believe that I charged a technical foul in a scrimmage in thirty-five years. But there can always be a first time.

That is why I see the problem. You have to "hope" everyone complies. If we have a fight in an scrimmage with teammates, that is up to the school do decide what works and we do not have to worry about that kind of thing escalating anyway as all the individuals involved are on the same program. I will never suggest a fight could not happen with teammates, because it certainly can, but these guys a least know each other have something to gain outside of playing each others. Again, these are primarily to give teams a chance to meet the public, that is it really.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is why I see the problem. You have to "hope" everyone complies.

I don't have to "hope" anything. I'm in full control at the site, and I only care about how everyone complies at the site, because if they don't comply with any of my penalties in the scrimmage, then I'm out the door. I'll even call a forfeit (yes, in a scrimmage) on my way out to make it official (officially ending the contest) before I hit the highway.

It would be nice if the penalties move up the ladder (athletic director, principal, the state interscholastic sports governing body), but compliance up the ladder wouldn't be high on my priority list, although I would file the necessary paperwork.

And this could happen in either an intersquad, or an intrasquad, scrimmage.

Coach: "You can't disqualify him. We're not keeping track of fouls".

BillyMac: "He's disqualified for trying to throw a punch".

Coach: "He's gonna keep playing. It's only a scrimmage".

BillyMac: "If that's the case coach, then you're going to forfeit the contest".

Coach: "I don't care. The game doesn't count".

BillyMac (to table): "This team (pointing) forfeits. I'm outta here."

And, when I get home. I'll contact my assignment commissioner, discuss the matter, and talk about filing all the necessary paperwork.

Scene.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I don't have to "hope" anything, I only care about how everyone complies at the site, because if they don't comply with any of my penalties in the scrimmage, then I'm out the door. I'll even call a forfeit (yes, in a scrimmage) on my way out to make it official (officially ending the contest) before I hit the highway.

It would be nice if the penalties move up the ladder (athletic director, principal, the state interscholastic sports governing body), but compliance up the ladder wouldn't be high on my priority list, although I would file the necessary paperwork.

And this (above) could happen in either an intersquad, or an intrasquad, scrimmage.

When I say hope, I mean you have to deal with the fallout. I do not have to write anyone or even tell the assignor anything about the scrimmage or what happened. Often these might not even involve just 2 or 3 officials and there might be officials constantly rotating into the contest to get some reps. Again, it is a very laid back event and often the coach wants the officials to talk to the team or even the parents about new rules or situations coming for the year.

You are right, problems could happen at any scrimmage. But I have never heard of anything happening in my state as I read on this board when teams are playing each other in a "scrimmage." Even in football where you cannot play another team, very little if anything happens that would raise any eyebrows.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And this could happen in either an intersquad, or an intrasquad, scrimmage.

Coach: "You can't disqualify him. We're not keeping track of fouls".

BillyMac: "He's disqualified for trying to throw a punch".

Coach: "He's gonna keep playing".

BillyMac: "If that's the case coach, then you're going to forfeit the contest".

Coach: "I don't care. The game doesn't count".

BillyMac (to table): "This team (pointing) forfeits. I'm outta here."

There would be no conversation of forfeit. There would be hardly any conversation about who can play. There would also no such conversation honestly. If we had those kinds of problems, I would walk off. And I would not likely have to even have any worries by doing so if it was that contentious. Scrimmages here are just practice.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Scrimmages here are just practice.

Agree. But once the scrimmage starts, it's the official who is in charge, not the coach.

Coaches are in charge at practice.

The buck has to stop somewhere.

"Too many chiefs, not enough Indians", will never work in a basketball contest.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. But once the scrimmage starts, it's the official who is in charge, not the coach. Coaches are in charge at practice.

And like I said, these are practices. The coaches are totally in charge of their practice. They decide what we do and what we do not do. We work with them to run the practice and call what we see. But then again, you are playing a game, we are running a practice. That is why we rotate officials in and out of these situations often just to get some work. Everyone is practicing.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The coaches are totally in charge of their practice. They decide what we do and what we do not do. We work with them to run the practice and call what we see.

Officials are in charge at a scrimmage. If coaches want to change some rules, we can often work with them (don't shoot one and ones).

But it two kids get involved with fight, and the coach convinces me not to disqualify them, and I comply with the coach, and the same two kids get in another fight (worst case scenario), with one of the kids getting seriously hurt, then my lawyer is going to make a lot of money defending me in a lawsuit.

There is absolutely no way that I'm giving up all of my authority as an official in any type of assignment, like allowing a coach to convince me to allow a disqualified player from continuing to play. It's his practice, but it's my scrimmage.

Rotating officials in, and out, of a scrimmage has nothing to do with this debate. They are all basketball officials.

Here's the reason for this debate:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Here, scrimmages are always intra-squad. I've never seen one where it involves two different teams.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In thirty five years, I've never worked an intrasquad scrimmage, all have been intersquad.

We live in two different worlds. Two experienced officials who have been around the block a few times, with two completely different experiences. The famous, or infamous, "When in Rome ..." situation.

But based on my experience as a basketball player, and as a middle school basketball coach, I still maintain that the same problems can occur in an intrasquad scrimmage, as an intersquad scrimmage.

Teammates can, and will fight. Usually it involves a girl.

Opponents can, and will fight. Usually it involves some type of disrespect.

As the contest official, in my scrimmage, they're on the bench, no matter how much the coach pleads his case.

If he won't allow me to be in charge, then I'm out the door.

After all, that's why I was asked (volunteered, or assigned) to be there, to be in charge of the contest. Otherwise why ask for officials? Assistant coaches can blow whistles just like officials can.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I don't have to "hope" anything. I'm in full control at the site, and I only care about how everyone complies at the site, because if they don't comply with any of my penalties in the scrimmage, then I'm out the door. I'll even call a forfeit (yes, in a scrimmage) on my way out to make it official (officially ending the contest) before I hit the highway.

It would be nice if the penalties move up the ladder (athletic director, principal, the state interscholastic sports governing body), but compliance up the ladder wouldn't be high on my priority list, although I would file the necessary paperwork.

And this could happen in either an intersquad, or an intrasquad, scrimmage.

Coach: "You can't disqualify him. We're not keeping track of fouls".

BillyMac: "He's disqualified for trying to throw a punch".

Coach: "He's gonna keep playing. It's only a scrimmage".

BillyMac: "If that's the case coach, then you're going to forfeit the contest".

Coach: "I don't care. The game doesn't count".

BillyMac (to table): "This team (pointing) forfeits. I'm outta here."

And, when I get home. I'll contact my assignment commissioner, discuss the matter, and talk about filing all the necessary paperwork.

Scene.

Agree. During a scrimmage here, we have full authority to eject any player or coach. We must contact director of officials and the player/coach will serve same penalty as they would in the season. If a coach is ejected in a scrimmage he must miss the first regular season game. If a player is ejected for fighting it a two game suspension.