First Louisiana now Mississippi

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Rich

The conference I assign is rural. 348 games, all 3-person. This is the first season games are assigned with 3 officials. I let crews bring a third last year and split 2 checks if they wished. A surprising number chose to do so, even though it cost each official $20.

I did have a few officials ask why we didn't raise the fees and work 2-person. Every one of those cared more about the money than the work.

Amen. My local board committed this year to finally going all 3-p for varsity. They took a $10 cut per game ($85-$75) and the 2-p JV officials are also going to eat a $10 cut ($55-$45) to help subsidize the increased varsity cost on the schools.

I'm all for it and I think most folks in the room agreed. But there was a subtle grumble from the cadre of permanent JV officials.


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[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Amen. My local board committed this year to finally going all 3-p for varsity. They took a $10 cut per game ($85-$75) and the 2-p JV officials are also going to eat a $10 cut ($55-$45) to help subsidize the increased varsity cost on the schools.

I'm all for it and I think most folks in the room agreed. But there was a subtle grumble from the cadre of permanent JV officials.


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Now that's the right way to do it. When NV shifted to 3-person, the Varsity crew split the previous two-person fee. The frosh and JV fees were not changed. That meant that the Varsity game fee was only about $5 more than the JV/frosh fee. It didn't make sense then and doesn't now.
People in NV still do better taking the frosh/JV double-header over a single Varsity game.

[Remington]

Just for comparison, in North Dakota, our fees are:

Class A Basketball (18 min halves): Varsity $73.50 - Soph/JV $40.50
Class B Basketball (8 min quarters): Varsity $71.50 -Soph/JV $40.50
Freshman: $35
7th-8th Grade: $30

NDHSAA is working to narrow the gap from Varsity to Soph/JV games.

**Rates are the same whether it is 2 or 3 person crews. Nearly all varsity games are 3 person crews.

**Mileage: Our state pays the state rate of $.575 per mile for the driver. Any roundtrip over 100 miles includes $.05 per mile for the riders.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

When you only work 9 months out of the year, you can't expect the taxpayers to pay you for 12.

I don't know anyone who expects that, but teachers only get paid for 9 months. That pay is just spread out over 12 months.

We had a fee increase in our area in Missouri in the last year or so. Our game fees are based on the length of the quarters being played:

6 min = $40
7 min = $50
8 min = $60

The majority of nights are JV/V doubleheaders where you make $110 or $120 depending on if the JV teams play 8-minute quarters or 7-minute quarters.

We get a $15 fee added on to any single game played (Usually a varsity-only night when they don't have a JV team), so it's $75 for a single varsity game.

We meet partners and ride together the vast majority of the time. The driver gets round-trip miles at 40 cents/mile.

I don't have many complaints about our fees. The only thing I don't like is that we make a half-game fee for working half a game. We could work a half JV game and make $25, whereas if we just didn't work the game at all and got the $15 single game fee, we would only be making $10 less. So in a sense, we are working that JV half for $10. I feel like we should do something like knock $10 off the game fee if you only play a half.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by zm1283

The only thing I don't like is that we make a half-game fee for working half a game.

WTF?!?!?

I've been in this referee business for quite some time, and I don't recall EVER being scheduled to only work half a game.

Am I alone in this?

[Matt S.]

When I lived in Montana the smaller schools would hire three officials; two varsity officials and a JV official (usually a newbie)...each varsity official would work a half of the JV game with the third, and the JV official would watch and learn during the varsity game.

It was actually a great experience for all parties...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I don't know anyone who expects that, but teachers only get paid for 9 months. That pay is just spread out over 12 months.

Here in Connecticut, teachers are only paid for about 185 (depends on school district) days, about 181 days with students, the other days are staff development days (mandatory to maintain certification).

Fifteen paid sick days (the students are constantly sneezing, and coughing, all over the teachers).

A few very specific personal days (closing on house, funeral, birth of child, marriage, adopt child, graduation, etc.)

No pay for "snow days".

No paid vacation days. No paid summer vacation. No paid winter vacation. No paid spring vacation.

No paid holidays.

No time-and-a-half overtime.

[IowaMike]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Amen. My local board committed this year to finally going all 3-p for varsity. They took a $10 cut per game ($85-$75) and the 2-p JV officials are also going to eat a $10 cut ($55-$45) to help subsidize the increased varsity cost on the schools.

I'm all for it and I think most folks in the room agreed. But there was a subtle grumble from the cadre of permanent JV officials.


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I don't blame the jv guys for grumbling; why should they subsidize the varsity guys?. I work a lot of varsity but still work some lower level stuff too and I wouldn't work a 2 person HS jv game for $45. You work harder doing a 2 person sophomore boys game than you do working a 3 person boys varsity game.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by IowaMike

You work harder doing a 2 person sophomore boys game than you do working a 3 person boys varsity game.

"Work" isn't just how much you run. I think a lot of 3p varsity officials feel they work pretty darn hard.

Don't forget that varsity officials don't get home until 10pm most nights; that also deserves compensation.

At the end of the day it's like that line from the movie Moneyball: "It's not about the money. It's about what the money says."


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[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

WTF?!?!?

I've been in this referee business for quite some time, and I don't recall EVER being scheduled to only work half a game.

Am I alone in this?

It usually happens at smaller schools that don't have enough players to play full JV games. They have to use some of the would-be JV players during the varsity game and they are limited to six quarters a night, so they don't have enough quarters left to play a full JV game.

Some of them will just play one JV quarter. Some only have 7-8 players total and will only play the varsity game with no JV game at all.

This is the exception more than the rule. The vast majority of nights are JV/V doubleheaders.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by IowaMike

I don't blame the jv guys for grumbling; why should they subsidize the varsity guys?. I work a lot of varsity but still work some lower level stuff too and I wouldn't work a 2 person HS jv game for $45. You work harder doing a 2 person sophomore boys game than you do working a 3 person boys varsity game.

More running maybe, but not more scrutiny or even pressure. There is a lot more to doing a varsity game than there is often doing a lower level game, which might not include all areas of the rules or administrative situations.

I think the varsity should be paid much more every single time. When a lower level game is scheduled on its own, it often does not have as many fans and in some cases is not even a charge to attend. That might be different in Mississippi or other states/areas, but that is pretty much the case here.

Peace

[IowaMike]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

More running maybe, but not more scrutiny or even pressure. There is a lot more to doing a varsity game than there is often doing a lower level game, which might not include all areas of the rules or administrative situations.

I think the varsity should be paid much more every single time. When a lower level game is scheduled on its own, it often does not have as many fans and in some cases is not even a charge to attend. That might be different in Mississippi or other states/areas, but that is pretty much the case here.

Peace

I personally find it easier to work a varsity game with 3 officials. Yes there is more scrutiny but I don't stress out about that, it's still just a high school basketball game not life or death. Varsity games generally have a better flow and are more predictable in my opinion because the level of play is better. JV games are often a real train wreck. As for the number of fans in the stands who cares? I rarely hear them anyway.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by IowaMike

I personally find it easier to work a varsity game with 3 officials. Yes there is more scrutiny but I don't stress out about that, it's still just a high school basketball game not life or death. Varsity games generally have a better flow and are more predictable in my opinion because the level of play is better. JV games are often a real train wreck. As for the number of fans in the stands who cares? I rarely hear them anyway.

When I am talking about scrutiny, I am not talking about fans. Fans are one thing, but your game on TV is another. Your game on live TV is another as well. You working a game with a kid that is going to some of the top institutions in college is another. You having kids that will likely be in the NBA like Derrick Rose or Jahlil Okafor and Jabari Parker is another. I have been fortunate to work some live TV games and the main scrutiny did not come from the fans. The main scrutiny came from fellow officials who wanted to be there and thought you should not be there. Or they were wondering why they were not there. And as Rich said, I have never had a Tweet about a game I was working at the JV level. I had a media person use my name during a State Final game where I was mostly in the background.

Also if you are talking about a physical strain, I run a lot more in varsity 3 person games than I do during a 2 person freshman game and a sophomore game (which are prelim games here). Bigger, faster and stronger, it is that simple. It is different chasing around 6'8" players over 6'0 players. And every call you make with those bigger players are scrutinized by folks that are not just fans. Work a big Thanksgiving and Christmas Tournament, people know you were there. This myth that no one knows you are there is no longer. That might have worked when there was no YouTube, but not when many games are on streaming video or live feeds.

Peace

[Rich]

And on top of Rut's excellent post, let me say this:

They aren't paying me for how much I run. They're paying me to be in the right position, have good judgment, and know the rules. They're paying me for whatever intangibles I have that let me call games at the level I call.

Anyhow, I just went through my schedule for the season today now that football is behind me.

Finally....the entire year is 3-person. No looking back now. Been a long time coming here.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Rich

Finally....the entire year is 3-person. No looking back now. Been a long time coming here.

I asked my friend Paul Ryan to use his new Speaker of the House muscle to make that happen in his district for you, Rich.

You're welcome.


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