"The Gods of Baseball" and rainouts.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

MTD, Jr., and I had the championship game in a 14U baseball league post-season tournament scheduled for Thursday, July 09th, at 06:00pm.; the game was rained out at 02:00pm that day and rescheduled for Monday, July 13th, at 06:00pm.

On Monday, July 13th, at 01:30pm, the game was rained out and rescheduled for Tuesday, July 14th, at 06:00pm.

Today, at 01:15pm, the game was rained out and rescheduled for tomorrow at 06:00pm.

There is only a 10% chance rain for tonight and a 0% chance of rain tomorrow. Hope springs eternal.

MTD, Sr.

[scrounge]

Not a horrible summer but pretty darned close. Massive tournament down here this weekend (Buckeye Elite, one of the biggest in the midwest) lost all day Thur, went to 5 inning games with 1:30 time limit for ALL pool games on Friday - and still lost a bunch of games on Fri to rain, cut out all consolation games and cut bracket teams by 2/3, then ended up cutting most of those as well on Sun. LOTS of angry, disgruntled teams and people saying it was a money grab - but not sure what they could have done.

I felt the wrath from one idiot myself on Sat. Had the final pool game where the winner would move on. Still the same rules, 5 innings, 1:30 time limit (if no winner by then and tied, go to a shootout - man on 2nd, 3-2 count for everyone). Visiting team was going thru pitchers, being deliberate, etc., but they tie it in top of 4th. In bottom half, HT loads the bases with 1 out, 1 min left in time limit. VT coach changes pitcher, we tell him that will run out the clock, he's totally fine with it, understands. Blooper to LF, R3 takes off and would have been easily doubled off if caught. Alas, the LF dives and gets his glove on it but it bounces out, game over.

As we're walking away, a parent comes up to us and starts ranting at us about "Are you f@#%#% lazy??? 4 innings? This is #@%% bu@#%@#". Like we made the tournament rules.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

MTD, Jr., and I had the championship game in a 14U baseball league post-season tournament scheduled for Thursday, July 09th, at 06:00pm.; the game was rained out at 02:00pm that day and rescheduled for Monday, July 13th, at 06:00pm.

On Monday, July 13th, at 01:30pm, the game was rained out and rescheduled for Tuesday, July 14th, at 06:00pm.

Today, at 01:15pm, the game was rained out and rescheduled for tomorrow at 06:00pm.

There is only a 10% chance rain for tonight and a 0% chance of rain tomorrow. Hope springs eternal.

MTD, Sr.

I had a game last night where the top of the final inning took 35 minutes. An hour and a half for 4 innings is "cruising"!

JJ

[DG]

Originally Posted by scrounge

Not a horrible summer but pretty darned close. Massive tournament down here this weekend (Buckeye Elite, one of the biggest in the midwest) lost all day Thur, went to 5 inning games with 1:30 time limit for ALL pool games on Friday - and still lost a bunch of games on Fri to rain, cut out all consolation games and cut bracket teams by 2/3, then ended up cutting most of those as well on Sun. LOTS of angry, disgruntled teams and people saying it was a money grab - but not sure what they could have done.

As we're walking away, a parent comes up to us and starts ranting at us about "Are you f@#%#% lazy??? 4 innings? This is #@%% bu@#%@#". Like we made the tournament rules.

Sounds like a money grab. If the teams paid to be there and did not get what they paid for, they should get some of their money back, IMHO. Not your fault, the tournament's fault.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by scrounge

Not a horrible summer but pretty darned close. Massive tournament down here this weekend (Buckeye Elite, one of the biggest in the midwest) lost all day Thur, went to 5 inning games with 1:30 time limit for ALL pool games on Friday - and still lost a bunch of games on Fri to rain, cut out all consolation games and cut bracket teams by 2/3, then ended up cutting most of those as well on Sun. LOTS of angry, disgruntled teams and people saying it was a money grab - but not sure what they could have done.

I felt the wrath from one idiot myself on Sat. Had the final pool game where the winner would move on. Still the same rules, 5 innings, 1:30 time limit (if no winner by then and tied, go to a shootout - man on 2nd, 3-2 count for everyone). Visiting team was going thru pitchers, being deliberate, etc., but they tie it in top of 4th. In bottom half, HT loads the bases with 1 out, 1 min left in time limit. VT coach changes pitcher, we tell him that will run out the clock, he's totally fine with it, understands. Blooper to LF, R3 takes off and would have been easily doubled off if caught. Alas, the LF dives and gets his glove on it but it bounces out, game over.

As we're walking away, a parent comes up to us and starts ranting at us about "Are you f@#%#% lazy??? 4 innings? This is #@%% bu@#%@#". Like we made the tournament rules.

Scrounge:

I sent you a PM yesterday.

MTD, Sr.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by DG

Sounds like a money grab. If the teams paid to be there and did not get what they paid for, they should get some of their money back, IMHO. Not your fault, the tournament's fault.

That's tricky though. There may not be money to give back. After all, the tournament has to pay it's costs, which aren't that much less for rainouts than it is for games played. Depending on the deal with the umpires, they likely only save game fees on the umpires.

Add to that the fact that they lose concession sales and they make less money when the cancel games than when they play them.

Finally, that's the chance you take when you're playing a game that can't be played in heavy rain. If you don't come into the tournament understanding that you can't play if it rains hard, you might need to find another sport to participate in.

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Scrounge:

I sent you a PM yesterday.

MTD, Sr.

gotcha...reply on the way

[jchamp]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

That's tricky though. There may not be money to give back. After all, the tournament has to pay it's costs, which aren't that much less for rainouts than it is for games played. Depending on the deal with the umpires, they likely only save game fees on the umpires.

Add to that the fact that they lose concession sales and they make less money when the cancel games than when they play them.

Finally, that's the chance you take when you're playing a game that can't be played in heavy rain. If you don't come into the tournament understanding that you can't play if it rains hard, you might need to find another sport to participate in.

I've been working at a chemical plant for the last two years and we hire contractors by the boatload to work throughout our facilities. The contracts are almost always "Time and materials", which means we pay for each person's hours on-site, plus costs for supplies they need to do their job. As for the hours, any time that is lost due to weather is always billed to us, the company that owns the plant. If that means that thunderstorms keep a hundred people in hotels for an entire shift, then we just paid for them to stay in the hotel.

The point is, the fact that weather can affect the ability of the tournament director to deliver his product, and this is common enough that it shouldn't be a surprise, means that the agreements when teams sign on should have stipulate the what happens if a rainout occurs. Otherwise, the tournament director can be considered on the hook for failing to deliver the product. These are still businesses, and can be treated as such. Some sort of insurance isn't out of the question, nor is agreements with venues. If the same person hosts several tournaments, then they can charge a higher rate and keep the extra income as a reserve on hand in case they have to pay out (but make sure that they make that attractive condition of a potential refund known when marketing their event).

[BretMan]

Most all tournaments, where people are plunking down big chunks of cash to be there, clearly spell out any refund policy to the teams before they agree to pony up. I'd be really surprised if this one didn't. In other words...if you knew what you were agreeing to, then you can't really bitch about it.

(Sure enough, I checked their website and it explicitly spells out the refund policy.)

[DG]

Originally Posted by BretMan

(Sure enough, I checked their website and it explicitly spells out the refund policy.)

Well, what is it?

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by DG

Well, what is it?

If a team plays no games, they get a full refund in the form of a 100% credit for next year's tournament. If a team plays one game, they get a 50% credit for next year's tournament. If a team plays two games or more, no refunds. Also, the tournament director may change the format of the tournament as he sees fit to adjust for weather delays or other situations.

Pretty much all teams got 3 games in, albeit 5 inning games. So...for 2/3 or more of the teams in the tournament - over 200 teams - paid about $1000 for 15 innings of baseball. Whattayagonnado? This is the business they've chosen.

[DG]

Originally Posted by scrounge

If a team plays no games, they get a full refund in the form of a 100% credit for next year's tournament. If a team plays one game, they get a 50% credit for next year's tournament. If a team plays two games or more, no refunds. Also, the tournament director may change the format of the tournament as he sees fit to adjust for weather delays or other situations.

Pretty much all teams got 3 games in, albeit 5 inning games. So...for 2/3 or more of the teams in the tournament - over 200 teams - paid about $1000 for 15 innings of baseball. Whattayagonnado? This is the business they've chosen.

I don't think I would pay $1000 for 3 games in a tournament out of town, or in for that matter. $200k is a windfall, regardless of expenses.