Batting out of Order

[gwood86]

I know this has been talked about to death but I still have a question. Let's say the lineup card has b4, b5, and b6 due up this inning. However, b5 bats first and walks. Defense does not appeal. Then b4 bats and gets a walk. Defense does not appeal. Then b6 comes to bat and after the first pitch, the defense appeals the batting order. My ruling was that the pitch to b6 legitamized b4 so the proper batter should be b5 now. However, b5 is on base so we skip him and b6 is now the proper batter and allowed him to finish his at bat. I feel comfortable with that ruling but if I'm wrong let me know.

The real question is, now that all that went down, what is the batting order the next time through the lineup. Is it back to the original lineup showing on the card (b4, b5, b6) or is it the lineup that actually batted the first time (b5, b4, b6)?

In the OBR, the comment seems to imply b5, b4, b6:

Rule 6.03(b)(7) Comment (Rule 6.07 Comment ): The umpire
shall not direct the attention of any person to the presence in
the batter’s box of an improper batter. This rule is designed to
require constant vigilance by the players and managers of both
teams.
There are two fundamentals to keep in mind: When a player
bats out of turn, the proper batter is the player called out. If
an improper batter bats and reaches base or is out and no
appeal is made before a pitch to the next batter, or before any
play or attempted play, that improper batter is considered to
have batted in proper turn and establishes the order that is to
follow.

Thank you.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by gwood86

I know this has been talked about to death but I still have a question. Let's say the lineup card has b4, b5, and b6 due up this inning. However, b5 bats first and walks. Defense does not appeal. Then b4 bats and gets a walk. Defense does not appeal. Then b6 comes to bat and after the first pitch, the defense appeals the batting order. My ruling was that the pitch to b6 legitamized b4 so the proper batter should be b5 now. However, b5 is on base so we skip him and b6 is now the proper batter and allowed him to finish his at bat. I feel comfortable with that ruling but if I'm wrong let me know.

The real question is, now that all that went down, what is the batting order the next time through the lineup. Is it back to the original lineup showing on the card (b4, b5, b6) or is it the lineup that actually batted the first time (b5, b4, b6)?



In the OBR, the comment seems to imply b5, b4, b6:

Rule 6.03(b)(7) Comment (Rule 6.07 Comment ): The umpire
shall not direct the attention of any person to the presence in
the batter’s box of an improper batter. This rule is designed to
require constant vigilance by the players and managers of both
teams.
There are two fundamentals to keep in mind: When a player
bats out of turn, the proper batter is the player called out. If
an improper batter bats and reaches base or is out and no
appeal is made before a pitch to the next batter, or before any
play or attempted play, that improper batter is considered to
have batted in proper turn and establishes the order that is to
follow.

Thank you.

The order is not "blessed". The original lineup is still valid.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by gwood86

I know this has been talked about to death but I still have a question. Let's say the lineup card has b4, b5, and b6 due up this inning. However, b5 bats first and walks. Defense does not appeal. Then b4 bats and gets a walk. Defense does not appeal. Then b6 comes to bat and after the first pitch, the defense appeals the batting order. My ruling was that the pitch to b6 legitamized b4 so the proper batter should be b5 now. However, b5 is on base so we skip him and b6 is now the proper batter and allowed him to finish his at bat. I feel comfortable with that ruling but if I'm wrong let me know.

The real question is, now that all that went down, what is the batting order the next time through the lineup. Is it back to the original lineup showing on the card (b4, b5, b6) or is it the lineup that actually batted the first time (b5, b4, b6)?

In the OBR, the comment seems to imply b5, b4, b6:

Rule 6.03(b)(7) Comment (Rule 6.07 Comment ): The umpire
shall not direct the attention of any person to the presence in
the batter’s box of an improper batter. This rule is designed to
require constant vigilance by the players and managers of both
teams.
There are two fundamentals to keep in mind: When a player
bats out of turn, the proper batter is the player called out. If
an improper batter bats and reaches base or is out and no
appeal is made before a pitch to the next batter, or before any
play or attempted play, that improper batter is considered to
have batted in proper turn and establishes the order that is to
follow.

Thank you.

4.04 The batting order shall be followed throughout the game unless a player is substituted for another. In that case the substitute shall take the place of the replaced player in the batting order.

[gwood86]

Thanks guys. I think I need a bit more clarification though. 4.04 doesn't apply when there is BOO and it is not appealed in time. In my example, the batting order did change from the original line up card. My understanding is that teams can bat in any order they want if the defense doesn't catch it.

If we do revert back to the original lineup card the second time through the lineup, what do the red words mean in the rule comments in OBR about establishing the order that is to follow.

Thanks again.

[Altor]

It means it establishes who the proper batter is immediately after what was the incorrect batter.

In your OP, the pitch to B4 made B5 the correct previous batter. The order to follow should have begun with B6. After B4 completed his AB, when the pitch was thrown to B6, B4 became the correct previous batter and now the proper order to follow would have begun with B5. Since B5 is on base, you correctly allowed B6 to bat.

What that phrase does NOT mean, is that the order on the lineup card is changed.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by gwood86

In my example, the batting order did change from the original line up card.

No, it didn't. That's your confusion.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by gwood86

Thanks guys. I think I need a bit more clarification though. 4.04 doesn't apply when there is BOO and it is not appealed in time. In my example, the batting order did change from the original line up card. My understanding is that teams can bat in any order they want if the defense doesn't catch it.

If we do revert back to the original lineup card the second time through the lineup, what do the red words mean in the rule comments in OBR about establishing the order that is to follow.

Thanks again.

The batting order did NOT change. That's why they are batting out of order.

[gwood86]

Makes perfect sense. The wording on that note is a bit confusing but it makes sense that it only is trying to describe what happens immediately after the BOO and not "change" the whole lineup card going forward.
Thanks again.

[DG]

Your ruling is correct, B6 is proper now.

Next time around they should bat the correct batting order, but if they do exactly same thing and no one complains then you end up with same result. Sooner or later someone is going to wise up.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by gwood86

Makes perfect sense. The wording on that note is a bit confusing but it makes sense that it only is trying to describe what happens immediately after the BOO and not "change" the whole lineup card going forward.
Thanks again.

It means, you do what you did.

Rita

[CT1]

There can be a difference between Batting Order and "order in which they actually come to bat".