LL Balk question

[bigda65]

For LL majors, There is no penalty for balks (only to be called an illegal pitch)

The only penalty of a ball to the count is for a quick pitch.

Is this correct?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by bigda65

For LL majors, There is no penalty for balks (only to be called an illegal pitch)

The only penalty of a ball to the count is for a quick pitch.

Is this correct?

Nope.

A balk is called an illegal pitch but it doesn't mean a "real" illegal pitch. For reasons none of us can comprehend LL decided to call a balk an illegal pitch in majors and below, confusing way too many people.

It should be considered to be the same as a regular balk but with a different penalty, the penalty being a ball added to the count.

Many wish LL would keep the "balk" terminology and just list separate penalties for majors down and intermediate up.

Hope this helps.

[bigda65]

Then yes it is really confusing rich, and why I asked.
There is only a penalty listed in this years book for e, which is an illegal pitch.

So yes very confusing.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by bigda65

Then yes it is really confusing rich, and why I asked.
There is only a penalty listed in this years book for e, which is an illegal pitch.

So yes very confusing.

8.05 calls it an illegal pitch for majors/minors with runners on for any "balk" violation. It further calls (e) and (g), the true IPs, a ball without runners for majors/minors.
It is confusing and was a change in the wording a year or two or three ago. Before that we did not call "balks" in majors/minors other than the true IPs.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by umpjim

8.05 calls it an illegal pitch for majors/minors with runners on for any "balk" violation. It further calls (e) and (g), the true IPs, a ball without runners for majors/minors.
It is confusing and was a change in the wording a year or two or three ago. Before that we did not call "balks" in majors/minors other than the true IPs.

You should have been calling them all along. The wording change was just to clarify that a "true" illegal pitch was just (e ) and (g ).

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by bigda65

Then yes it is really confusing rich, and why I asked.
There is only a penalty listed in this years book for e, which is an illegal pitch.

So yes very confusing.

There is a penalty for (e ) AND in addition there is the overall "illegal pitch" or balk penalty (level dependent) on page 101 after Note: 2.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

You should have been calling them all along. The wording change was just to clarify that a "true" illegal pitch was just (e ) and (g ).

I seem to remember some guidance to only call the two IPs with or without runners in the past. Looking at the wording in 2011, it was miss guidance, and we should have been calling 8.05 violations also. Of course, the most common, violation in majors in below would be failure to go thru with the pitch and that didn't happen often.

[bigda65]

Thanks Rich,

All square now. I confused myself, the kid balked - started windup then stopped, but no runners were on base, they called illegal pitch and added a ball to the count.

Im good now.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by bigda65

Thanks Rich,

All square now. I confused myself, the kid balked - started windup then stopped, but no runners were on base, they called illegal pitch and added a ball to the count.

Im good now.

With no runners on, this is nothing in LL. With no runners on, the only illegal pitches to be called are quick pitch and pitching without the pivot foot in contact with the rubber.

Rita

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by bigda65

Thanks Rich,

All square now. I confused myself, the kid balked - started windup then stopped, but no runners were on base, they called illegal pitch and added a ball to the count.

I'm good now.

Not a balk/LL "illegal pitch" with no runners on.

If it wouldn't be a balk then it wouldn't be a LL "illegal pitch"

[bigda65]

Exactly, Now you see why I confused myself.

what my original statement should have been is, there is no penalty for a balk with no runners on base in Majors and below, and left the illegal pitch off, because there is a penalty attached to that.