contradicting or not

[zebra2955]

Rule 2 -5-art 1 –b
A fair ball is a batted ball which: b, contacts fair ground on or beyond an imaginary line between first and third base

Rule 2-16-art 1 a
A foul ball is a batted ball: a which settles on foul territory between home and first base or between home and third base..
This brings up a situation that could happen especially with the new turf fields.

Batter hits a ball with back spin which first hits beyond this imaginary line between first and third, spins back and settles in foul territory. By rule you could call it both ways or am I missing something here.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by zebra2955

Rule 2 -5-art 1 –b
A fair ball is a batted ball which: b, contacts fair ground on or beyond an imaginary line between first and third base

Rule 2-16-art 1 a
A foul ball is a batted ball: a which settles on foul territory between home and first base or between home and third base..
This brings up a situation that could happen especially with the new turf fields.

Batter hits a ball with back spin which first hits beyond this imaginary line between first and third, spins back and settles in foul territory. By rule you could call it both ways or am I missing something here.

Fair ball. Not contradicting.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by zebra2955

Rule 2 -5-art 1 –b
A fair ball is a batted ball which: b, contacts fair ground on or beyond an imaginary line between first and third base

Rule 2-16-art 1 a
A foul ball is a batted ball: a which settles on foul territory between home and first base or between home and third base..
This brings up a situation that could happen especially with the new turf fields.

Batter hits a ball with back spin which first hits beyond this imaginary line between first and third, spins back and settles in foul territory. By rule you could call it both ways or am I missing something here.

It became fair when it hit fair and met the requirement. You can't un-fair it after that.

What if a fly ball to the outfield hits fair and then rolls into foul ground. Is that now foul? Of course not. Same here.

[zebra2955]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

It became fair when it hit fair and met the requirement. You can't un-fair it after that.

What if a fly ball to the outfield hits fair and then rolls into foul ground. Is that now foul? Of course not. Same here.

Completely different scenario,

Ball could hit at 90fett 1 inch right by either bag, spin backwards and go foul in front of bag. is why I am asking.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by zebra2955

Completely different scenario...

Not exactly the same, but not completely different, either.

The key to both calls is where the ball FIRST lands.

[zebra2955]

I understand that. But a broad statement. ball could hit fair/foul before the imaginary line and then go the other way. so in reality your statement is not quite true.

Just something I have thought about after seeing some weird stuff on turf fields. The odds in most cases is the defense will make a play on the ball before it has a chance to go foul. Considering how far the ball has to go to cross this imaginary line. They would not want to run the risk of the runner beating the play.

One thing I like about turf fields is the extra outs you get from players over sliding the base.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by zebra2955

I understand that. But a broad statement. ball could hit fair/foul before the imaginary line and then go the other way. so in reality your statement is not quite true.

Just something I have thought about after seeing some weird stuff on turf fields. The odds in most cases is the defense will make a play on the ball before it has a chance to go foul. Considering how far the ball has to go to cross this imaginary line. They would not want to run the risk of the runner beating the play.

One thing I like about turf fields is the extra outs you get from players over sliding the base.

Once it first lands fair or foul beyond 1st or 3rd, that is the status of the ball. Yes, it is that simple.

The status of a fair/foul ball before 1st or 3rd base depends on where the ball settles if it does not pass 1st or 3rd base. It's nothing until it settles or is touched. Turf doesn't change the definitions of those things.

[johnnyg08]

I do agree with you in the fact that as base umpire, you must be aware of the oversliding of bases and to make sure you're properly using your eyes before making your safe/out decision.

[zebra2955]

Thanks for the info

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by zebra2955

Thanks for the info

You're welcome.

[zebra2955]

Thinking about this some more, how does a plate umpire tell if the ball is close to this imaginary line and then does spin back.

It could land let say a point half way between 1st and the mound or third and the mound and then spin back. Be past the imaginary line. The plate ump would have a tough time seeing this. Could the base ump help with this and how would he do it.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by zebra2955

Thinking about this some more, how does a plate umpire tell if the ball is close to this imaginary line and then does spin back.

It could land let say a point half way between 1st and the mound or third and the mound and then spin back. Be past the imaginary line. The plate ump would have a tough time seeing this. Could the base ump help with this and how would he do it.

Judgment. Basically if the ball lands behind the pitcher's rubber.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by zebra2955

Thinking about this some more, how does a plate umpire tell if the ball is close to this imaginary line and then does spin back.

It could land let say a point half way between 1st and the mound or third and the mound and then spin back. Be past the imaginary line. The plate ump would have a tough time seeing this. Could the base ump help with this and how would he do it.

Yes, BU can help. But, once the uncaught ball is called "foul" it's foul, even if the umpire was "wrong."

On your OP, a batted ball is initially neither fair nor foul. Once it becomes one or the other, then the status is set and can't be changed.

[zebra2955]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes, BU can help. But, once the uncaught ball is called "foul" it's foul, even if the umpire was "wrong."

On your OP, a batted ball is initially neither fair nor foul. Once it becomes one or the other, then the status is set and can't be changed.

Now that makes sense

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by zebra2955

Completely different scenario,

Ball could hit at 90fett 1 inch right by either bag, spin backwards and go foul in front of bag. is why I am asking.

If it first hits fair beyond the demarcation point it is fair - period. It IS the same in both cases because it met the fair criteria.