contradicting or not

[jicecone]

The definition of an imaginary line is a line that is "existing only in one's imagination". Synonyms: unreal, nonexistent, fictional, fictitious, pretend, make-believe, mythical, mythological, fabulous, fanciful, storybook, fantastic.

Which leads to the insanity of this rule in the first place. Fair and foul balls at least have a clear definition on the field (most fields) by a pre-defined chalk or painted line. But, having the ability to judge the position of a batted ball, relative to a line that is imaginary. That in itself is not only quite a feat but, I myself, can't even imagine it.

I can certainly understand your questions however, sometimes some rules just don't make ANY sense at all. This happens to be one of them. It would be interesting to know the history of this.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by jicecone

The definition of an imaginary line is a line that is "existing only in one's imagination". Synonyms: unreal, nonexistent, fictional, fictitious, pretend, make-believe, mythical, mythological, fabulous, fanciful, storybook, fantastic.

Which leads to the insanity of this rule in the first place. Fair and foul balls at least have a clear definition on the field (most fields) by a pre-defined chalk or painted line. But, having the ability to judge the position of a batted ball, relative to a line that is imaginary. That in itself is not only quite a feat but, I myself, can't even imagine it.

I can certainly understand your questions however, sometimes some rules just don't make ANY sense at all. This happens to be one of them. It would be interesting to know the history of this.

I'll call that ball fair when FED requires the line to be painted. But in another forum someone pointed out that this was actually an early OBR definition. I hope this doesn't happen to you.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jicecone

The definition of an imaginary line is a line that is "existing only in one's imagination". Synonyms: unreal, nonexistent, fictional, fictitious, pretend, make-believe, mythical, mythological, fabulous, fanciful, storybook, fantastic.

Which leads to the insanity of this rule in the first place. Fair and foul balls at least have a clear definition on the field (most fields) by a pre-defined chalk or painted line. But, having the ability to judge the position of a batted ball, relative to a line that is imaginary. That in itself is not only quite a feat but, I myself, can't even imagine it.

I can certainly understand your questions however, sometimes some rules just don't make ANY sense at all. This happens to be one of them. It would be interesting to know the history of this.

You have a similar issue in OBR with an "imaginary" line if the ball hits beyond the 1b-2b line and then spins foul.

It all comes down to the defintion of "beyond". Is it a line between the bases, an arc between the bases, or the square defined by the bases as corners?

For now, FED has chosen (a), while OBR has chosen (c).

[zebra2955]

I have talked with one of our state interpreters and he agrees it looks like contradicting definitions. He is going to look into getting some clarification from the NFHS. I don't believe we would have any discussion of this until turf fields came into existence. I have seen some goofy stuff on the turf fields.

If you look at this imaginary line, it is approx. 70 feet or so from home plate. You could have a ball hit close to this line, or even slightly over it. spin foul. Tough call either way.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by zebra2955

I have talked with one of our state interpreters and he agrees it looks like contradicting definitions. He is going to look into getting some clarification from the NFHS. I don't believe we would have any discussion of this until turf fields came into existence. I have seen some goofy stuff on the turf fields.

If you look at this imaginary line, it is approx. 70 feet or so from home plate. You could have a ball hit close to this line, or even slightly over it. spin foul. Tough call either way.

Personally, I think you're putting way too much thought into this. There are much, much bigger fish to fry on a baseball diamond.

If it happens, make a call (fair or foul) and stick with it.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by zebra2955

I have talked with one of our state interpreters and he agrees it looks like contradicting definitions. He is going to look into getting some clarification from the NFHS. I don't believe we would have any discussion of this until turf fields came into existence. I have seen some goofy stuff on the turf fields.

If you look at this imaginary line, it is approx. 70 feet or so from home plate. You could have a ball hit close to this line, or even slightly over it. spin foul. Tough call either way.

How can anyone think it is not fair?

ART. 1 . . . A fair ball is a batted ball which:
d. first falls on fair ground on or beyond first or third base; or

It did that. It's fair. Please cite a rule tahe says you can "un-fair" a batted ball once fair.

[zebra2955]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

How can anyone think it is not fair?

ART. 1 . . . A fair ball is a batted ball which:
d. first falls on fair ground on or beyond first or third base; or

It did that. It's fair. Please cite a rule tahe says you can "un-fair" a batted ball once fair.

That is the difference. You are citing d, which is in every code of baseball. I am citing b which is Fed specific. That is the reason I ask. What could happen in every code of baseball is a foul ball except Fed, which is why I look at the definitions being contradicting. Just my opinion.

[rcaverly]

Originally Posted by zebra2955

Rule 2 -5-art 1 –b A fair ball is a batted ball which: b, contacts fair ground on or beyond an imaginary line between first and third base…

Like others have said, once judged fair, it cannot change to foul.

Originally Posted by zebra2955

Rule 2-16-art 1 a A foul ball is a batted ball: a which settles on foul territory between home and first base or between home and third base..

This is ruling on a batted ball that has not yet been ruled fair, like in the first quote, above.

Originally Posted by zebra2955

Batter hits a ball with back spin which first hits beyond this imaginary line between first and third, spins back and settles in foul territory. By rule you could call it both ways or am I missing something here.

It may be possible to call it both ways, but not legally. The instant a batted ball touches anything or anybody on or over “the imaginary line,” it is legally a fair ball regardless of where it rolls.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by zebra2955

That is the difference. You are citing d, which is in every code of baseball. I am citing b which is Fed specific. That is the reason I ask. What could happen in every code of baseball is a foul ball except Fed, which is why I look at the definitions being contradicting. Just my opinion.

They're not contradictory, they're just different.

Fair ball in FED, Foul everywhere else.

I also want to know when it happens.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by rcaverly

Like others have said, once judged fair, it cannot change to foul. It may be possible to call it both ways, but not legally. The instant a batted ball touches anything or anybody on or over “the imaginary line,” it is legally a fair ball regardless of where it rolls.

Regardless of my opinion of this rule, you are absolutely correct

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by zebra2955

That is the difference. You are citing d, which is in every code of baseball. I am citing b which is Fed specific. That is the reason I ask. What could happen in every code of baseball is a foul ball except Fed, which is why I look at the definitions being contradicting. Just my opinion.

Stop applying non-FED rulings to a FED game and you'll be fine.

[Matt]

What about an imaginary 90' arc with its center at the point of home plate? Has anyone considered that? Hmmm?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Matt

What about an imaginary 90' arc with its center at the point of home plate? Has anyone considered that? Hmmm?

See post #18

[CT1]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Personally, I think you're putting way too much thought into this. There are much, much bigger fish to fry on a baseball diamond.

If it happens, make a call (fair or foul) and stick with it.

For the sake of consistency, just call it foul. Nobody's gonna argue.

[JJ]

Has anybody ever seen this? Ever? The closest thing I've ever seen to this is a batted ball hitting the pitching rubber and bouncing back foul. I've never seen nor heard of a ball on it's own doing anything close to what the OP outlined. And here we've spent two pages on it. Let's get the season going, for goodness sake!

JJ