To Balk Or Not To Balk, That Is The Question..

[GarthB]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Marty is trying to differentiate between the stretch and the set portions of this delivery.

I think so, especially after reading Bob's and your post.

The original post sounded like the pitcher was standing tall

" Left foot on rubber, right foot in front a foot or so,... Getting ready to go into set position."

Perhaps not in the stretch yet??? So maybe his question was do you allow the pitcher to move his shoulders at this stage of the delivery - something that would look like the beginning of a delivery? This is really two seperate questions - shoulder movement, and delivery movement.

As I said in my post above, the shoulder turn prior to coming set is okay in OBR but a balk in FED.

OBR: Yes, shoulder move is allowed until the pitcher comes to his stopped, set position.

FED: No, shoulder movement is not allowed while in contact with the rubber.

And you agree. Good.


I do like the moniker of the Black Letter of the Law... Sherriff Benham (spelling?). I don't think it was meant to be offensive and I don't think you took it that way. But not everybody may be aware that being considered a "Rulebook Official" is not necessarily a compliment.

I have a hard time of seeing myself that way. Of course some rules lend themselves to that kind of enforcement. But overall, as a good friend once put it, we need to be a channel in the flow of the game, not a dam.

Which black letter would you choose? I can see your spurs and cowboy swagger now. That's a nice black hat Sherriff.

I guess I'd pick the letter G. I remember as a kid watching the Cheerios commercials. At the end they would zoom in on the script G in "General Mills" and the announcer would say: "The big G stands for goodness." I was only about seven and probably 40 pounds soaking wet, but the other kids started calling me Big G. Even when it became obvious I wasn't going to grow into it, the nick name stuck.

Now, unfortunately, it fits.

However, since Mick, Rich and Bob have been deputized by official forum, it might be best if one of them took the moniker. Sheriff Fronheiser has a ring to it.

[Roger Greene]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GarthB
[B]

Originally posted by wpiced
ALRIGHTY THEN! YOU DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER. FAIR ENOUGH.

I am quite sincere in my inability to decipher what good old Marty is asking. If anyone else thinks they can restate his question understandably, I'd be happy to answer it. How about you Roger? You have the skill and temperment of one who has to decipher and rule on evidence. Can you help me out here?

[Edited by GarthB on Sep 2nd, 2003 at 12:14 PM]

Garth,
I grant him a continuance to prefect his pleading. Bob and DTTB appear to have been retained to provide counsel.

And if Rich is going to be the Sheriff, you can still be the DS (thats deputy sheriff not dip stick).

Roger

[wpiced]

Thank you gentlemen.

I knew you could do it. Bob and Garth, I'll accept your admonishment for a poorly framed question, but you both knew what I was asking. Your answers were clear enough and I think the relevent portions of your posting will be of some interest to the person who wrote the original threat.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by wpiced
Thank you gentlemen.

Bob and Garth, I'll accept your admonishment for a poorly framed question, but you both knew what I was asking.

I wish I could take credit for that Marty, but I honestly can't. I didn't understand why you didn't think I had answered your question in my first response until Bob posted. He's the smart one in the family. The older ones are always smarter.

[chuckfan1]

To try and be more detailed to what I was asking, Ill try and describe the pitchers stance at the time he feinted/faked towards 2b:

F1, a lefty, has left foot on rubber. Right foot, in front, pitching hand at side with ball, glove in other hand at side. Standing tall. Facing first base side. It would be the position right before F1 would bring his arms up set. Hes either going to pitch, throw to a base or step off. Its right then that F1, turns only his head back towards R2. Nothing else, no shoulder turn, nothing. And without doing anything else, lifts his pitching arm and feints a throw to 2nd. It was emphatic enough an attempt, just no step. As if saying in a matter-of-fact way...."Hey sparky, get back on the base, before I really wheel around and pick ya off"...
F1 then turned his head around back towards the batter. Thats when , in all my glory, called a balk. I called it, rightly or wrongly because I saw no step with the feinit/fake.
I guess also, as I read on here, I could have called a balk because in him raising his pitching arm this is associated with starting his delievery to home??

[GarthB]

A feint to second requires a step. Good Balk call.

In reference to:

"guess also, as I read on here, I could have called a balk because in him raising his pitching arm this is associated with starting his delievery to home??"

Wait a second. He wasn't set yet was he? Haven't you ever seen a pitcher appear to be coming set and the blow through the set point by stepping and throwing to a bag? (Remember, the pitcher does not have to come set to throw to a bag)

Merely raising the arms prior to set does not commit the pitcher to come home. He could even step off the back of the rubber, couldn't he?

[nine01c]

OBR
Everything the pitcher was doing was legal (looking over his shoulder, turning his shoulder, fixing his hat, swinging his arm back and forth) while he was in his "stretch." None of these are considered part of his pitching motion. Even though he wasn't really stretching very much (usually you see F1 bent way over forward) he still has not come to his "set" where all those actions mentioned above would be a BALK with runner(s) on base.

The mistake he made was "throwing or feinting a throw" to a base without first stepping toward that base. He has BALKED by not stepping first. This is a blatant BALK and you called it right by your instincts and knowledge. Hearing it yelled out by someone may have "reminded" you, but YOU still had to call it. Ignore what the coach says since he doesn't know what he is talking about.