The Official Forum - Legally putting ball in play, dead ball violations

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Somethings wrong here

"high level, experienced, top quality umpires".

Some respected umpires insist to me that even though the call of PLAY may be technically incorrect, the ball IS in play and the BALK must be called due to the OBVIOUS illegal act and intent to decieve

These two statements do not seem to coincide.

I can't imagine any "quality" official calling anything during a dead ball.

Thanks
David

Quote:

Originally posted by GarthB
"We are at odds in my association over these questions. "

Knowing your association somewhat, or at least several fine examples within it, it's hard to believe that this is a serious or lengthy topic of discussion.

Garth, thanks for the compliment. Actually, the two main oponents are D1 and CC level umpires. Maybe they should be "johnsoned"! ;)

Re: Somethings wrong here

Quote:

Originally posted by David B

I can't imagine any "quality" official calling anything during a dead ball.

Lots of stuff is called during dead ball. A ball for going to the mouth for example. Base awards for example. Just not balks and certainly not this one.

"Maybe they should be "johnsoned"! "

Or in some cases, "out-ed" might be appropriate. :D

Re: Re: Somethings wrong here

Quote:

Originally posted by Boone

Quote:

Originally posted by David B

I can't imagine any "quality" official calling anything during a dead ball.

Lots of stuff is called during dead ball. A ball for going to the mouth for example. Base awards for example. Just not balks and certainly not this one.

I might agree that "some" things might be called, but base awards are not a call. Its as you stated an award.

As I stated before, the quality official isn't making a lot of calls during a dead ball.

He does a lot of preventive umpiring though and that's what makes him the quality official that he is.

Thanks
David

the "quality umpire" leading the charge that this is a balk and not a do-over wrote a well-known former MLB umpire, who might teach umpiring during the winter as well, and this was his response:

I'M WRONG!
I Just received an E-mail from none other than *** *****. How about that guy? Replying to my E-mail at 11:00 at night.

Anyway here's what he said: "The umpire erred in putting the ball in play without meeting all the conditions. Those conditions exceed those enumerated in 5.11. The pitcher must have the ball in his possession; he must engage the rubber, fielders must all be in fair territory; the catcher must be behind the plate and the batter must be "reasonably set" in the batter's box. Then and only then can the umpire legally put the ball in play
It is not a balk when the pitcher goes onto the rubber without the ball when time is out.
The 13 actions defined as balks in 8.05 (a-m) all apply to live ball situations. In the stated case, the ball was legally dead and no runners can be put out with a dead ball (5.02).
Picking crow feathers from my teeth,
Gary

So there we have it. And we are all pretty much unanimous.