What's the ruling?

[wish7694]

2-2 game bottom of the 7th. Fed Rules. R2 is stealing third and slides head first into 3rd base. Catcher's throw hit's the runners helmet as the bill of the runners helmet simultaneously hits the base. The helmet goes flying and comes to rest over the ball. R2 reaches home safely.

Does the run score or is the ball dead? Would appreciate rule citation for opinion. Thanks for considering.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by wish7694

2-2 game bottom of the 7th. Fed Rules. R2 is stealing third and slides head first into 3rd base. Catcher's throw hit's the runners helmet as the bill of the runners helmet simultaneously hits the base. The helmet goes flying and comes to rest over the ball. R2 reaches home safely.

Does the run score or is the ball dead? Would appreciate rule citation for opinion. Thanks for considering.

Run scores, live ball. There is no cite that would rule otherwise.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Run scores, live ball. There is no cite that would rule otherwise.

There is a rule site that would be SLIGHTLY different. Given that the helmet is on top of the ball - if the defender couldn't find it, an umpire might rule this a blocked ball. Of course ... the result is the same, run still scores.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

There is a rule site that would be SLIGHTLY different. Given that the helmet is on top of the ball - if the defender couldn't find it, an umpire might rule this a blocked ball. Of course ... the result is the same, run still scores.

A blocked ball? In baseball?

[rcaverly]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Run scores, live ball. There is no cite that would rule otherwise.

I would cite NFHS 8.3.3f. But, I would judge the ball unplayable and dead.

If I judged the runner was attempting to advance home before the ball became unplayable, he scores on a one-base award beyond his last legally acquired base.

If I judge the runner was attempting to advance only after the ball became unplayable, then he stays at 3B.

CB 8.3.3 A and B deal with the ball becoming unplayable in a runner's uniform, but I have no problem stretching B and either moving the runner up or keeping him at 3B based on what I judge he was attempting to do when the ball became dead.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by rcaverly

I would cite NFHS 8.3.3f. But, I would judge the ball unplayable and dead.

.

One heluva heavy helmet covering the ball.

[DG]

Ooo

[Matt]

Originally Posted by rcaverly

I would cite NFHS 8.3.3f. But, I would judge the ball unplayable and dead.

If I judged the runner was attempting to advance home before the ball became unplayable, he scores on a one-base award beyond his last legally acquired base.

If I judge the runner was attempting to advance only after the ball became unplayable, then he stays at 3B.

CB 8.3.3 A and B deal with the ball becoming unplayable in a runner's uniform, but I have no problem stretching B and either moving the runner up or keeping him at 3B based on what I judge he was attempting to do when the ball became dead.

How is it unplayable?

[Mrumpiresir]

Originally Posted by Matt

How is it unplayable?

Suppose F5 is looking around for the ball and cannot find it, Would that be unplayable?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Mrumpiresir

Suppose F5 is looking around for the ball and cannot find it, Would that be unplayable?

No.

[rcaverly]

Originally Posted by Matt

How is it unplayable?

I wasn't there. I just visualized the ball somehow ending up under the helmet and the fielder not knowing where it was. I pictured the fielder frantically looking around for the ball while the base coach was yelling at his runner, having just had his "bell rung" and also oblivious to the location of the ball.

umpjim couldn't find a cite, so I offered what I found.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by rcaverly

I wasn't there. I just visualized the ball somehow ending up under the helmet and the fielder not knowing where it was. I pictured the fielder frantically looking around for the ball while the base coach was yelling at his runner, having just had his "bell rung" and also oblivious to the location of the ball.

umpjim couldn't find a cite, so I offered what I found.

And F5's teammates weren't helping him?

[rcaverly]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

And F5's teammates weren't helping him?

Sadly, no, they didn't.

Later, after the game, F7 tried his best to console F5, but to no avail. F5 stuck to his position that somehow the umpire was the cause of that one run scoring and tried to run both officials and some others over with his car in the parking lot.

F5 was subsequently arrested for reckless endangerment and jailed while waiting to make bail. Late that night when they went to finally release him from his cell, he had somehow disappeared without a trace. Others who were in close proximity to his cell said that they saw a bright light and subsequently lost consciousness. When they came to, he was gone.

F2 and F8 in an early morning press conference explained that they were no longer going to play baseball. Instead they were both going to begin studying transcendentalism in officiating, specifically rulings on third-world plays during night games.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by rcaverly

Sadly, no, they didn't.

Later, after the game, F7 tried his best to console F5, but to no avail. F5 stuck to his position that somehow the umpire was the cause of that one run scoring and tried to run both officials and some others over with his car in the parking lot.

F5 was subsequently arrested for reckless endangerment and jailed while waiting to make bail. Late that night when they went to finally release him from his cell, he had somehow disappeared without a trace. Others who were in close proximity to his cell said that they saw a bright light and subsequently lost consciousness. When they came to, he was gone.

F2 and F8 in an early morning press conference explained that they were no longer going to play baseball. Instead they were both going to begin studying transcendentalism in officiating, specifically rulings on third-world plays during night games.

F5 was Jesus? Must have also batted low in the order, since he couldn't hit a curveball.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by rcaverly

I wasn't there. I just visualized the ball somehow ending up under the helmet and the fielder not knowing where it was. I pictured the fielder frantically looking around for the ball while the base coach was yelling at his runner, having just had his "bell rung" and also oblivious to the location of the ball.

umpjim couldn't find a cite, so I offered what I found.

I didn't say I couldn't find one. I said there wasn't one. Do we now need to kill a ball that the catcher can't find. Or a ball that is under a fielder. But your cite was creative and the argument should continue.