Ruling???

[nelson_28602]

OK, I know this could not possibly happen, but if did, what would you rule? After numerous penalties against A, A will try for the extra point from A's 10 (in other words, they need a 90 yard play for a two point conversion). A1 drops back to pass and A2 holds in the endzone. A3 catches the pass and yes, goes 90 yards for the score! What's the call? Does A get another chance as B will accept the penalty? Where would the ball be spoted? Hmm!

[mikesears]

This might be a time to invoke the rule that states the referee has authority to rule on anything not specifically covered in the rules.

I'd place the ball on the 1-yard line and replay the try.

[mcrowder]

Safety - 1 point for B.

What would you do if this was a normal play from scrimmage, and not a try for point? Certainly not A's ball on the 1. This is a safety.

[Edited by mcrowder on Oct 12th, 2005 at 09:22 AM]

[Warrenkicker]

I can't decide between that, replay from the 1, and just saying that the try failed because the ball can't be snapped from the location that the penalty enforcement would place it. You can bet that B's coach will be looking for a point out of this though.

However, 8-3-3 says that only A can score on a try using NF rules.

8-3-3 During a try, A may score two points from what would be a touchdown or one point for a field goal or safety by B under rules governing play at other times during the game.

[Edited by Warrenkicker on Oct 14th, 2005 at 01:04 PM]

[mcrowder]

My response is correct for NCAA.

For FED, I can see why the wording of 8-3-3 (coupled with the fact that B can't return an interception or fumble for 2 pts of it's own in FED rules) might lead you to just call this an unsuccessful try.

Under no circumstance, however, can I see giving A another shot at it, as there is no place to legally start the play. B ended the "try" by scoring.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Wow! Thankfully, we're only talking hypothetical here...right? Unlike NCAA, B cannot be awarded any points ever on a try in Federation. However the bigger question is what do we do with the foul. Obviously B cannot decline it. But how do you enforce it? I have no idea...

[w_sohl]

Originally posted by Warrenkicker
I can't decide between that and just saying that the try failed because the ball can't be snapped from the location that the penalty enforcement would place it. You can bet that B's coach will be looking for a point out of this though.

However, 8-3-3 says that only A can score on a try using NF rules.

8-3-3 During a try, A may score two points from what would be a touchdown or one point for a field goal or safety by B under rules governing play at other times during the game.

In this same situation if A were to throw a pass and it was intercepted in the endzone it would result in a TD as B did not advance the attempt, I believe you would give B 6 points and they would be able to attempt the try.

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by w_sohl
...In this same situation if A were to throw a pass and it was intercepted in the endzone it would result in a TD as B did not advance the attempt, I believe you would give B 6 points and they would be able to attempt the try.

REPLY: Not true in Federation. The try would just be over as soon as B secured possession. No points scored. B cannot score on a try...under any circumstances.

[w_sohl]

Originally posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Not true in Federation. The try would just be over as soon as B secured possession. No points scored. B cannot score on a try...under any circumstances.

Bob, I'm not sure this is right, our crew discussed this and the unanimious decision was that if B intercepted a try in A's endzone that it would be a TD. I also think one of our guys said this was like this in a case book play.

[Warrenkicker]

w_sohl - Are you attempting to argue that B can score 6 points by intercepting a pass in A's endzone during a try by A????

Rule 8-3 lists how a team can score during a try. It never says that B can score. It only says how A can score.

8.3.3 SITUATION: During a try, a fumble by A1 is nearly at rest on the 3-yard line when a muff by B1 is judged to be a new force causing the ball to go into B's end zone where B2 recovers and: (a) downs the ball in the end zone; or (b) advances to his 10-yard line. RULING: The try ends and the ball becomes dead when B2 recovers. In any ordinary down, such a dead ball in the end zone would be a safety, therefore, one point is scored for A in both (a) and (b). B cannot score during a try down. (4-2-2i; 8-1; 8-5-2b)

[BayouUmp]

Originally posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Not true in Federation. The try would just be over as soon as B secured possession. No points scored. B cannot score on a try...under any circumstances.

I agree Bob. Ball is dead as soon as B secures possession on a try. Since possession is a prerequisite of a TD, you cannot have a TD. Ball is dead, try fails.

[w_sohl]

I recind my thoughts as I had found that part in the book, good thing it didn't happen to me in a game before I got set straight. I'm sure as a crew we would have gotten it right though.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: w_sohl...happy that you've seen the error of your ways (only kidding). But...even in NCAA where B can score on a try, they only get 2 points for what would be a TD--not six

[Suudy]

Originally posted by BayouUmp
I agree Bob. Ball is dead as soon as B secures possession on a try. Since possession is a prerequisite of a TD, you cannot have a TD. Ball is dead, try fails. [/B]

I agree that B cannot score. But I'm not so sure if the above statement really captures why.

The ball isn't dead until B possesses it. So possession must precede the ball becoming dead. And if B is in A's endzone, and possesses the ball, it must score.

There must be some other reason why this is not score.

[Edited by Suudy on Oct 14th, 2005 at 11:02 AM]

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by Suudy
...There must be some other reason why this is not score.

REPLY: NF 8-3-3 outlines very clearly what scores can take place during a try: "During a try, Team A may score 2 points from what would be a touchdown or 1 point for a field goal or safety by B under rules governing play at other times during the game." Says nothing about Team B's ability to score.

Though the NCAA rules re: the try are structured differently, their analagous rule is also very clear: "A try is an opportunity for either team to score one or two points while the game clock is stopped and is a special interval in a game which, for purposes of penalty enforcement only, includes both a down and the "ready" period that precedes it."