The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 24, 2014, 03:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 1,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Agreed, but this was 12U Rec, so some "positioning" can be appropriate.
Usually, the problem with these catchers is they set up so far back, they cost their pitchers strikes at the bottom of the zone. Sometimes you can solve this by moving up and standing in his (previous) spot as he is throwing the ball back to the pitcher.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 24, 2014, 03:11pm
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock View Post
Usually, the problem with these catchers is they set up so far back, they cost their pitchers strikes at the bottom of the zone. Sometimes you can solve this by moving up and standing in his (previous) spot as he is throwing the ball back to the pitcher.
Not me. I'm not forcing the catcher to stop doing something he's legally entitled to do. If his positioning is costing his pitcher strikes, that's on him, and his coach needs to make the adjustment.
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 24, 2014, 07:13pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 1,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Not me. I'm not forcing the catcher to stop doing something he's legally entitled to do. If his positioning is costing his pitcher strikes, that's on him, and his coach needs to make the adjustment.
I'm not forcing him to do anything. He can set up anywhere he wants in his box. And I'll be glad to move if he wants me to.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 25, 2014, 08:18am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tyler, Texas
Posts: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Not me. I'm not forcing the catcher to stop doing something he's legally entitled to do. If his positioning is costing his pitcher strikes, that's on him, and his coach needs to make the adjustment.
I'm with Dash on this. I'm there to get strikes and outs. If F2 is setting up too far back, I will do what Dash said. If F2 says something to me about me crowding him, I will move back.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:16am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock View Post
Usually, the problem with these catchers is they set up so far back, they cost their pitchers strikes at the bottom of the zone. Sometimes you can solve this by moving up and standing in his (previous) spot as he is throwing the ball back to the pitcher.
I don't see how a deep setup would cause the umpire to lose sight of a pitch that could (should) be called a strike if it was indeed a strike - if he is properly positioned to see pitches. The catcher actually has 8' to work with but rarely is more than a foot or two deeper than the batter. Call it where it crossed the plate, not where it hits the catcher's mitt. Any umpire that just calls those pitches Balls is really doing a disservice to the pitcher/catcher.

...sometimes you just gotta umpire.

__________________
"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done."
Chris Z.
Detroit/SE Michigan
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:59am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 1,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robmoz View Post
I don't see how a deep setup would cause the umpire to lose sight of a pitch that could (should) be called a strike if it was indeed a strike - if he is properly positioned to see pitches. The catcher actually has 8' to work with but rarely is more than a foot or two deeper than the batter. Call it where it crossed the plate, not where it hits the catcher's mitt. Any umpire that just calls those pitches Balls is really doing a disservice to the pitcher/catcher.

...sometimes you just gotta umpire.

It has nothing to do with losing sight of the pitch.

If the pitch nicks the bottom of the zone, and the catcher mashes it into the dirt because he is set up too far back to properly receive the pitch, I'm balling it.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 26, 2014, 12:22pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robmoz View Post
I don't see how a deep setup would cause the umpire to lose sight of a pitch that could (should) be called a strike if it was indeed a strike - if he is properly positioned to see pitches. The catcher actually has 8' to work with but rarely is more than a foot or two deeper than the batter. Call it where it crossed the plate, not where it hits the catcher's mitt. Any umpire that just calls those pitches Balls is really doing a disservice to the pitcher/catcher.

...sometimes you just gotta umpire.

FACT

And any umpire that officiates any type of decent baseball and calls balls and strikes strickly by where it crosses the plate, is not officiating decent baseball for very long.....!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 26, 2014, 01:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by jicecone View Post
FACT

And any umpire that officiates any type of decent baseball and calls balls and strikes strickly by where it crosses the plate, is not officiating decent baseball for very long.....!
I believe the MLB tracking systems (the official ones, not the TV network ones) measure the area over the plate and rate the umpires accordingly.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 26, 2014, 01:46pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
I believe the MLB tracking systems (the official ones, not the TV network ones) measure the area over the plate and rate the umpires accordingly.
Except that the pitch that hits the bottom of the zone and then hits the dirt (not sure the exact criteria for this) is properly called a "ball" even in the tracking system
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 28, 2014, 09:45am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Except that the pitch that hits the bottom of the zone and then hits the dirt (not sure the exact criteria for this) is properly called a "ball" even in the tracking system
just a side note, the MLB tracking system (ZE system) judges the ball from the time it crosses the plate, so initially that pitch that catches the bottom of the zone but hits the dirt is ruled as a missed pitch for the PU... obviously they don't want that called a strike so the supervisors go in each morning and when they check the performance of the umpires they reverse that decision and recalculate the PU's accuracy score so it is scored as a ball

edit: the balls and strikes system they use is the ZE system, the system they use for calls in the field is the SURE system

Last edited by flaump22; Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 09:56am.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 28, 2014, 09:51am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by flaump22 View Post
just a side note, the MLB tracking system (SURE system) judges the ball from the time it crosses the plate, so initially that pitch that catches the bottom of the zone but hits the dirt is ruled as a missed pitch for the PU... obviously they don't want that called a strike so the supervisors go in each morning and when they check the performance of the umpires they reverse that decision and recalculate the PU's accuracy score so it is scored as a ball
I find that hard to believe that in THE PROS they actually cheat and call pitches that touch the strike zone balls. Where is that allowed in the rulebook.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 26, 2014, 02:10pm
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by jicecone View Post
FACT

And any umpire that officiates any type of decent baseball and calls balls and strikes strickly by where it crosses the plate, is not officiating decent baseball for very long.....!
Well, if it's "decent baseball", then you aren't going to be dealing with catchers that set up that deep in the box in the first place. And it's easier to sell a Ball call on a pitch that hits the dirt after nicking the lower part of the zone in "decent baseball" because it will likely be a nasty breaker.
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:04am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by jicecone View Post
FACT

And any umpire that officiates any type of decent baseball and calls balls and strikes strickly by where it crosses the plate, is not officiating decent baseball for very long.....!
Really? ...and any umpire that decides to just make up his own rules about the strike zone (i.e. "one off on the inside, two off on the outside") is not officiating decent baseball for very long...FACT!

But that begs the question as to what is considered "decent" baseball, I guess.
__________________
"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done."
Chris Z.
Detroit/SE Michigan
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:10am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robmoz View Post
Really? ...and any umpire that decides to just make up his own rules about the strike zone (i.e. "one off on the inside, two off on the outside") is not officiating decent baseball for very long...FACT!

But that begs the question as to what is considered "decent" baseball, I guess.
What ever works for you!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 35
Mitt question has been answered.

At 12U there's a high probability of a catcher too far back, and a high probability of strikes hitting the dirt because of it. (At the higher levels, there's more velocity/flatter pitches, so fewer in the dirt even if F2 is back). Fundamentally I rarely call a pitch in the dirt a strike. At younger ages in instructional league ball, I'm telling the catcher to move up and often his coach. Tournaments and older ages I'm staying quiet unless asked, and the too deep catcher will cost his pitcher some strikes.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jersey Shore Season 5 Episode 12 - Season 5 Reunion greenharry Basketball 0 Thu Mar 22, 2012 06:08am
season's over fullor30 Basketball 0 Fri Feb 17, 2012 02:04pm
This season refnrev Basketball 13 Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:29am
What a way to end the season Mark Padgett Basketball 2 Sat Mar 21, 2009 08:39pm
End of Season? whiskers_ump Softball 15 Mon Sep 08, 2003 02:44pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:03pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1