Base running dilemma

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Warren Willson
[/B]

I am pleased to have found such solid support for my view here at Officials Forum. I was beginning to feel a little isolated in that view at the other forum.

Cheers, and thanks for playing. [/B][/QUOTE]

Other forum? There's another forum?

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Your original question was stated as "barely missing 2nd on his way back."

Okay. Barely is likely close enough for me. I'm probably "not going to notice" that he slightly missed second and give the runner the benefit of the doubt.

However, based upon the ruling that you have given, the runner could return from two steps short of 3rd... across the pitcher's mound... and retouch 1st. Then accept his award of 3rd by advancing to 2nd and then to 3rd. If I understood correctly, this would be okay.

There is a large difference between trying to do things correctly (but failing slightly/barely) and intentionally doing things wrong. Would you still feel the runner is not in jeopardy for missing 2nd on his return if he cuts across the diamond?

No that runner cutting across the diamond would still be in jeopardy, Tony. Rich has it correct. According to the guideline, Last Time By cannot be used to correct a GROSS miss. I don't know the exact rule of thumb that the pro's use, but I'd suspect it would be similar to the neighbourhood play at 2nd - if the runner was close enough that he COULD have touched the base, but didn't, then LTB can be used to correct the error.

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
I also note that the ruling you quote does not make any mention of the runner not being in jeopardy of an appeal... It says that he can RETOUCH both bases (Well, of course) but does the use of the word "retouch" mean that he is not in jeopardy of an appeal for missing a base on his return trip to tag-up?

Yes, "retouch" was used in the sense of correcting the original error. The runner would no longer be in jeopardy from an appeal for that error at that base.

Cheers

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by GarthB

Other forum? There's another forum?

Not boasting the same generally high calibre of knowledge and understanding of the game and its rules, no.

Cheers

[mick]

Originally posted by Warren Willson

No that runner cutting across the diamond would still be in jeopardy, Tony. Rich has it correct. According to the guideline, Last Time By cannot be used to correct a GROSS miss. I don't know the exact rule of thumb that the pro's use, but I'd suspect it would be similar to the neighbourhood play at 2nd - if the runner was close enough that he COULD have touched the base, but didn't, then LTB can be used to correct the error.

Fellas,
I'll buy into that philosophy, but why should I have to..., because in this case, as in other baseball rules, the baseball interpretations and rules, for no better reason, are what they are.
mick

[VaUmp]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Who knows -- I thought this was the Bordick play at first, but I read more carefully this time.

I'd probably deny the appeal and use the "last time by" principle in doing so.

I should have such weird plays in my games. Tonight I worked 9 innings in 2 hours and didn't have a single word of disagreement -- not on a single pitch or play. Of course, this was the last game of the regular season and all the playoff spots and seeds had been decided, so this was a "play-out-the-string" kinda game.

Rich

54 outs and a cold one - sounds perfect to me.

[His High Holiness]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Warren Willson

I am pleased to have found such solid support for my view here at Officials Forum. I was beginning to feel a little isolated in that view at the other forum.

Cheers, and thanks for playing.

Warren;

Feeling a little insecure, aren't you? Insecurity is not a characteristic of a top level umpire. Insecurity in a Little League umpire forum is a characteristic of a Little League umpire.

Peter

[Warren Willson]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by His High Holiness

Originally posted by Warren Willson

Warren;

Feeling a little insecure, aren't you? Insecurity is not a characteristic of a top level umpire. Insecurity in a Little League umpire forum is a characteristic of a Little League umpire.

Peter

You've either forgotten how to read or you are DELIBERATELY MISLEADING the readers. That's called PREVARICATION in my dictionary.

I said I was feeling "a little isolated", not "insecure". Most umpires know that feeling of isolation every time they step onto the diamond, and "top level" umpires even more so courtesy of the larger crowds and the presence of second-guessing ground announcers. It is a feeling that is especially amplified whenever their colleagues are Smitty's who are likely to hang them out to dry on calls, and who generally don't behave like they are members of "the 3rd team". Sound familiar? It should because, from everything I've seen of you over the years, it is YOUR normal form!

Smitty ... er ... Peter, your jibes are a transparent and clumsy attempt to fire up yet another dispute. Instead they have simply exposed you for what you are, and isolated you from the rest of the umpiring team. YOU LOSE, sucker! Brrrrtt!!!