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Little League World Series Umps
Been watching some of the early round games shown on TV. I find it interesting to see the different mechanics used by plate umpires and sometimes even the field umps. I realize they are volunteers. I wonder how they are selected and if differing styles might cause some confusion. Not criticizing, just looking for input. Thanks.
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I kind of think that says everything. Until LL gets serious about their umpires like every other organization has, they will get what they get. |
I was watching a game on Wednesday. I don't recall the teams but the b/r turned to go to second base (after a wild throw to first) and the first base ump was in the way. A collision occured, B/R scrambled up to his feet and was thrown out at second. Time was called and the umps gave him second because of interference/obstruction of umpire. No questions asked by defense. To my knowledge, there is no way an umpire can be called for obstruction in this situation, just play on. Umpire is part of the field when it comes to players running into them.
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Interesting to see Paronto quoted in the comments as saying "wrong by rule but good for the game" . I don't know if he actually said that. Edited to add: Upon reviewing the link they awarded 2B but then changed it to 1B. Not exactly what the LL guys did. |
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As far as I know LL is the only youth org that has umpire schools regularly at their regional centers. We don't get to see the Babe Ruth/Ripken, Dixie, whatever on TV so we really don't know how their umpires would appear. |
At the regional level, umps are recommended by their local districts, hence all the Smittys out there. Regional games are like gold watches for these codgers. Yes, I can say that a "senior."
I did LL for 30+ years,along with HS, Legion and summer, college-level+ ball. LL "clinics" are all about the rules, with small nods to mechanics, etc. I cringe when I watch these games. Ace |
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They're not all bad umpires. That guy working the Great Lakes Regional Final last year was a little squirrely but what are you gonna do? :D
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Rita |
Out of Shape
I was amazed by how many guys I have seen so far are out of shape......
are they hitting the concession stand between each game ???? |
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why in the hell are they running 6-man crews, that's what I want to know
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Six-man crews allow more overweight people to get "the nod."
OTOH (with a nod to Rita), I thought San Berdoo had the best crews, BY FAR. I saw more than one guy with his shoes shined and one with a ... gasp ... FLEX BELT! Plus, most of them have NEVER done HS, Legion, etc. They are "dedicated volunteers," who are pillars of their community and make the same mistakes they have been doing for years. And no one can tell them differently. Ergo, they get worse. This is why you see routine plays dressed up, balls that are skatey-eight feet foul bellowed out, umps standing at attention to make base calls. As I have said, there is virtually no vetting process to do a regional. It's a lot of heinie-kissing at the local level--or years of service. I knew a guy who was a classic example. Umped for over 30 years. And he was horrible. When I became UIC for my district, I worked hard to get rid of him. The solution: banning "the raft" for plate umps. He refused to buck up, so we stopped giving him post-season games. Of course, almost yearly, there would be an article in the paper singing his praises, such as: "Harry Smitty has dedicated years of his life, blah, blah, woof, woof..." I particularly think it sad when the level of play FAR outshines the level of officiating. Harrumph. Ace |
I have been told by various people in LL that assignments to Regional's and LLWS are awards for service to LL, and not based on competence as an official. Don't assume you are seeing the best of the best. There are also cases of individual districts being given slots as a reward for the DA, for his/her service to LL.
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To say that most have not worked high school or higher levels is wrong. Many of the umpires choosen from Michigan have worked high school finals, myself included. In 2010 I believe, the plate umpires for the semi-finals in Williamsport were a former MiLB umpire and the man who had the plate for the Class A (highest class) in Michigan.
Some of the mechanics might not be the best, but I can remember when MLB umpires had different mechanics depending on who was in the crew. The Central Region umpire clinic has a drill done before every break "doing the bog six". Yes I get upset when I see guys yelling foul when the ball is in the parking lot, wearing a long sleeve T shirt with short sleeve shirt over it ect, but I saw a picture from A ripken tournament of a guy with the balloon and shorts. I don't think we want robots as umpres, which is what we would have if all mechanics were the same. |
Dst8ada, it has been my experience that most of the umpires chosen for higher level LL assignments have not had any HS or above experience. There is only one umpire that I know of that has done high level HS games as well as LL games, and that is out of about 20 or so umpires that I am acquainted with that have done Regional and WS games for LL.
You might say 'we don't want robots' but that is what is being represented on the field. It's hard to argue with evidence. |
Having done LL at all levels for 33 years before hanging it up, I am with Bob.
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IMO~Six guys on such a little field is overkill. RF & LF line umps at least need to go. All the umpires look jumbled up out there on occasion. Watching U2 come in on a hit to the outfield leaves little room for the players.
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Why is doing HS/Fed ball some sort of benchmark? I'm watching more HS ball, as my son is now a Varsity coach, and at least around here, the quality is hit and miss.
Most guys that I know that get a shot at LL TV games, at least out here in the West, are also doing Adult wood bat, older travel, college summer league, etc. Weekend stuff, but not HS as they have real, 9-5 jobs that preclude them from working those 3pm games. |
Six-man crews for the LL post-season is nothing more than giving umpires the opportunity to work more games when they reach those levels. Unfortunately, they get so bored out there on the lines, that they feel compelled to make those exaggerated foul calls on balls that are in the next county.
I recall doing a LL State tournament years ago, and the tournament UIC from the host league received permission to use his local umpires as LFUs and RFUs, as a form of gratitude for their volunteerism during the regular season. I don't particularly believe those umpires are necessary on the small diamond in general, but if the tournament director sees the need, then, candidly, I think those positions should be filled by the umpires selected to work the tournaments, not local yokels who may not be worthy of working these games. |
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And yet you still see 3 umpires pivoting inside unnecessarily on balls hit to the outfield, when the ideal number doing so would be ZERO. |
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Rita |
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At the regional last year I was amazed at how many people pivoted in as U1 just like they would in a 2-umpire crew. |
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At our district tournaments we use crews of 3 at most. To me that's all you really need on a small diamond anyway. When we're invited to send umpires to a state tournament we send a crew of 3 as well (the district sending the crew chooses the size of the crew). |
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Some good umpires got left out and were somewhat unhappy. But only 4 umpires of 12 could work the infield. |
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I vaguely recall years ago during the LLWS when a LL umpire from Canada failed to see a home run that hit the foul pole. I think he ruled that the ball never left the field and hit the fence, or maybe he ruled it foul, I can't really remember. Imagine something like that happening in a regional championship game where instant replay is not used to correct, and the call is made by an umpire who just came in from the cold late in the game. Regardless of how good this umpire is, the perception would be that the call was made by someone who wasn't focused because he just entered. I could hear the ESPN announcers now, lamenting, "Hey, that umpire wasn't the same guy who made the catch call in the third inning! What's going on here?" Why deal with that hassle? It's an honor to work the final game, and that honor should be bestowed on the best of the best. JMO |
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So allowing them to rotate devalues something we would all consider valueless. Had to laugh. :) :) |
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The four man crew came out dressed in red shirts. The very first batter hit a fly ball to centerfield, and HPU came busting out to the pitcher's mound to make the catch signal.............It was downhill after that. Missed rotations, missed balks, etc. I was sitting next to the scout/coach for the team the winner would face. I said, "Do you want that same crew for you series?" He shook his head, and said, "No. That is one of the first things I'm going to tell my head coach about. Close plays can go either way, but we at least want somebody that knows where to be on a close play." I don't blame him. |
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I can't take these guys !!!!!!
Started watching Panama and Puerto Rico yesterday and guy behind dish made me sick........
Passed ball runner scores from third and there is no play on runner, umpire gives us a safe signal...... In 2nd inning kid swings at strike three and umpires "rings him up", wouldn't just a simple closed fist suffice with no theatrics ????? Am I nit picking ???? Those things make me cringe !!!!! |
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Coaches at the youth and those other levels are usually parents and they just scream, for example they don't walk on to the field and discuss calls, they simply yell "get help" ( sure sign of wreck ball ). And let's face it, those umpires at that level are mostly in it it for the money and don't like to make the "tough" call as they want to come back and work every weekend ...... in other words they umpire because they want everyone to be their friend..... As an assigner for hs ball and "summer ball", I have been able to keep my "summer ball" contracts for 15 years because I only use hs guys !!!!! While the coaches at 13 get a little upset because the zones are a bit smaller and we don't "get help" on every play, by the time these teams are playing 14 U the coaches get it as they see the same zone called in hs...... |
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Couldn't resist
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You got me.......:D:D:D |
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If anyone asks, I was the 3rd base umpire in the semi-final game, that was the last game I worked in the world series. In the junior baseball regional last year I worked the LFU in the first championship game, stayed there for all 7 innings, that is the only way I would have wanted it and I count it that way. I was U3 on the if game, it's just an assignment. |
Puerto Rico vs. Australia....PU...OMG.
Wow, just wow! The crazy man strike call and the Eric Gregg zone. This game is going to be funnnnnn....he's very quick too.:eek: |
Umpire Timing
Hey Blues! Slow down. I'm seeing way too many umps throwing the hand up before the catcher even catches the ball.
For those Blues who insist on not getting down where you can see the corners, don't call the corners. All you're doing is guessing/assuming it hit the corner, and I've seen way too many calls missed! You got to the LLWS based on your years service. In all those years, I would have hoped to see better mechanics. But, I guess LL will never have a mini clinic a couple of weeks before the regionals start, to help weed out those who aren't up to the standard of calling World Series games. |
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Now with all that has been said about LL umpires, we had a guy from our college group work the plate at the LL world series last year. He didn't fit the mold of these other guys we have seen on TV. He was pretty damn good. |
Steve, the exceptions are few and far between. So far, I have only seen one PU that called a great game. The base and line umps have been marginal at best. I hope that they whittle the crews down to the best for the final rounds of the series. This is a showcase event for LL and they should be showcasing the best of the best in their umpire world. They clearly aren't or they clearly don't know how to define excellence in umpiring.
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No LL simply doesn't care whether the umpires are good or not. Remember they have Instant Replay!
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Wow, just wow is right! |
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Not while I was watching - except once when the catcher reached back to the plate to catch what was obviously a strike. |
I've watched 10 minutes of the LLWS. Japan game yesterday. The place guy was flinching on every pitch, his head was moving on every pitch, you could flip a coin on balls/strikes, and his positioning on a play at the plate was the one place where he got blocked -- and he did -- and then replay inexplicably didn't overturn the missed call.
I've had enough for the year, I think. I'll probably watch the plate game of the one guy there I know and like and again if he gets the plate in a playoff game or the final. Other than that, it's football season. |
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<iframe width="480" height="360" src="//www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/PuHYv92BCnI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
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And Strike 3 was a clinic in how not to work the plate. |
And now I just watched U2 brush off second base. I give up.
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Iowa / Michigan
At least PU in this game looks like this isn't his first rodeo.....he gets my vote for the dish in the 'ship !!!!! ( At least compared to everything else I have seen )
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They tell us to do what got you here when you get picked to work high-level games. But this is something that has to be fixed before an umpire steps out onto the field. Some kind of assessment should be done of these ladies and gentlemen before the series starts. Williamsport is only bringing ridicule upon itself to let something like this go without making an attempt to remedy beforehand. |
This poor codger is an embarrassment. Funny part is, if you watch Jr., Sr. or Big League tourneys, you'll see competent arbiters using standard mechanics.
THE BIG QUESTION: How come THESE guys aren't in W-port? My guess is that they're not old enough, not in with the right crowd, don't have rabbis or are simply JUST TOO GOOD. Ace |
Nowadays, Williamsport could require video of every umpire that was being considered by all the Regionals for TV games. That way they could screen them for mechanics, game management, and if they can see their belt buckle when they look down (or at least their shoes, for Gosh sakes).
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My league uses those bases. Trust me when I say, you want a broom. Rita |
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Maybe they were also smart and applied at levels where they knew they'd get picked much quicker. I got my (upper division) regional the second year I put in for it. |
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I'll be the first to admit that I'm an amateur with a capitol A but man o man. What is that guy thinking? I've seen first year umpires set up better than that. That just scary on so many levels. That's not even funny. It's just sad. |
PU in the Australia/Texas game just missed a UK3 mechanic. He called strike 3 but never gave the safe sign.
Good heads up play by the Aussie runner since the defense was confused because of the no call. |
I'd like to see that strike zone box on the screen with this guy. They'd probably have to have an arrow pointing off the screen to show where those two pitches were. :eek::eek::eek:
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LL is supposed to be about Volunteering. If you were ever a UIC or a scheduler of umpires for a given LL season, you have your guys / gals that you can count on. They might not necessarily be the best but they are willing and able. Then you get to the districts / sates etc. etc. and then the Distric administrator gets involved and brings in their "heavy-weights" The "other group" who busts their buts all year round gets nothing or at the very least maybe a couple of first / second round All Star games at best. Then we wonder why ABC LL organization can't get umpires. Hey it's ok for me to work games all week maybe 3-4 games on Saturday but when the "big" games come I am not good enough. You said it best "we had a guy from our college group" This guy should be polished. I am not saying this college umpire did not donate games for free to LL but if he was doing college ball he was not there each and every night. Also, LLWS umpire bashing has been going on for quite some time now. In a Forum I used to visit quite frequently (eteamz) it was a yearly event. The problem: LL "sold their sole" to the network Instead of LL doing the right thing and pay for umpires, they want to "hide" behind the notion that it's all Volunteer but when the "show" starts they want the cream of the crop umpires. I too knew some college guys that umpired at the districts etc. Yeah they were good but they should have been. In a nutshell you "cannot have your cake and eat it to" If it's truly volunteer then allow the guys / gals who bust their butts all year to officiate, otherwise simply pay for the officials. Pete Booth |
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Pete, when I was UIC for a league several years ago we used to use the local HS association umpires for our SR/Big League games and yes, we paid them for it. It was very difficult to get competent 90' umpires for those levels. We supplemented them with a few LL volunteers (myself included). I don't think I ever was looked upon with favor by the true "volunteer only" purists in our district because of hiring 'outsiders' to do LL games.
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(1) I give away over a month of prime money games every year to volunteer during the LL tournaments. I should be thought of as no less a volunteer because I work college baseball in the spring than these umpires are. In the end, we all meet the LL criteria for post-season assignments. (2) Cream of the crop? Have you been watching the LLWS this year? :rolleyes: |
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What about the regular season? You come in during the tournaments which I also do, but if I was one of those regular season umpires and did not get any Tournament games because you and other college / FED umpires wanted them I would not like it and I do not think you would either. My main point is this It's LL and it should be umpired by the people who officiate day in and day out no matter how bad / good BUT LL has sold out to TV. Also, here most are bashing the LLWS umps We had a PRO umpire this year allow a pitching change without the original F1 throwing a pitch a basic rule. Pete Booth |
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Let's just leave it at this ... if you want volunteers, fine. But in umpiring as everywhere else, you get what you pay for. |
I doubt LL asked any of you for your opinions on their umpiring - although you are entitled to them....................
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Rita |
[QUOTE=PeteBooth;902878][QUOTE]
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I watched a few innings of the Taiwan/Puerto Rico elimination game yesterday. I believe the same umpire from the video in post #53 did the plate for this one. Someone must have given him a good critique of his first game, because he tightened up his zone; in fact, at times it seemed too tight. But it was certainly much improved.
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When tournament time came, any of us who had our head halfway screwed on and saved enough of that cash to call up +POS and order a shirt and pants would sometimes work the District tourneys as volunteers. Here and there one of us would make it to Sectionals (or whatever's after District). I think this was partly because we had a few full-time volunteers who were trusted and able to vouch for us. |
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The point of having a discussion Forum is for all to share their opinions whether you like them or not. Pete Booth |
The game deserves the best it can get........
[QUOTE=PeteBooth;902878][QUOTE]
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I totally disagree with your opinion. If supervisors at any level can get someone whom they feel is better the so be it..... It happens at every level... For example, your from NY so I will use this example. The guy that assigns the MAAC Conference for basketball uses three guys that work a lot of Big East games to work the final and those guys dont work a lotta of MAAC games during the season, but they are better than most of the other guys and maybe the supervisor trusts them. You have only said that becasue you work all season long, that you are entitled to those games (playoffs). Don't the kids deserve the best officiating the league can get them regardless. More often than not, those guys supervisors are bringing in are just more talented and sometimes as officials we need to accept that they may be better..... Assigners face the challenge of availabilty vs. ability. AS someone who has assigned at the hs level for 15 yrs, I'll take ability all the time. And to the umpires who are honest with themselves they will admit that more often than not they aren't working a certain game because I have chosen someone better,,,,, |
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IMO, you are comparing Apples / Oranges In the example you gave College officiating is a paid job and that's the way it's done. Same in HS once you get to the sectional / state level. You are chosen because of ratings. LL is a Volunteer Organization and is different. It's ok to use "so and so" during the reg season but because the "stakes" are now higher we don't need them anymore? What message are you sending? In the example you gave there is a plethora of officials waiting for their chance. During a regular season LL game, try and find umpires. I was once one of those "parents from the stands umpires" , enjoyed it and took it a step further. IMO, cannot compare college or even HS officiating to a volunteer organization. Like I said can't have it both ways. Pete Booth |
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Like I said before, you get what you pay for. If you disagree, watch another game on TV until you agree. It's a mess. If you don't see the mess, you have put your blinders on and refuse to see. |
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There's a lot of talk here about volunteers Vs higher quality umpires.
Bottom line is the vast majority of umpires I've seen have demonstrated a complete lack of training. There are, of course, exceptions but I would not trust most of these guys in a HS JV game. |
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I will say this, I took pride in my work when I volunteered for little league, and I take pride in my work when I get paid. It makes no difference to me. The little league umpires who I know and worked with all thought the same way. At the district level, we took pride in the clinics we ran and I will put any of our volunteer umpires up against any of these LLWS umpires across the board.
It is insulting to me that Little League would let things get so bad, and then hide behind the "they are only volunteer's" excuse and put in instant replay to fix the mistakes of the umpires they use. It's a sad state of affairs, in my opinion. |
The plate umpire on the Panama-Chinese Taipae game was wearing the +POS chest protector with all the plastic studs that show through the shirt. Great protection but boy was that thing heavy! He did a nice job with the strike zone, even though Nomar accused him of tightening up in the 6th inning.
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Some finish to this game......poor Taipea third basemen. :( I did appreciate the sportsmanship at the end as the team from Chinese-Taipae bowed to the crowd in thanking them. |
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MLB now will have instant replay challenges. Joe Torre says that there is an average of 3 blown calls for every 15 daily games or 20% of the games played. 89 reviewable plays vs 11 non-reviewable.
Does that make it a monkey show? Is the difference is money for the teams and players when Little League only pays for transportation and housing for either to the show? ABC pays 10's of millions of dollars to broadcast Little League every year. They and their sponsors obviously like the product because of the ratings it gets. Granted, there is too much politics involved in the assignments, but Volunteer Umpires are part of Little League's overall program. The only poor officiating analogy I can see make is why, unless a NBA Team is more down by more than 20 points with 5 minutes to go in a game, why do they end up so close? Did the players "dog it" until then or do the referees have poorer judgment? JMHO |
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