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I have spent way too much time trying to find this answer, so I am hoping a few people can help out.
Scenario: Two out, runners on second (R2) and third (R3). Batter hits groundball to shortstop, who tags out R2 trying to advance to third. R3 crosses home plate before the tag; however, the batter does not make it to first before the tag. Does the run count? |
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-Josh |
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But if the shortstop had thrown to first, there would be no question of the run scoring or not. So the coach will probably have a chat with him. Rita |
Thanks!
I appreciate the replies!
Still seems a little off to me. Consider this scenario: Bases loaded, two outs, and the batter is walked. If batter does not touch first base (assuming no fan interference or other crazy stuff), the run does not count - i.e., the batter must successfully become a runner prior to the third out. I know this is not exactly the same scenario, but (at least in my little mind) the logic seems somewhat applicable. In my scenario above, since the batter has not successfully avoided becoming the third out (i.e., theoretically, he may still have been thrown out by the time the last out occurred), the run should not count regardless of how the out occurred. Again, I appreciate the replies! Just goes to show how little I really know about a game I have spent my entire life involved with. |
Think about it this way though ... you don't know, at the moment the 3rd out was made, whether the batter-runner would have been safe at first... but once that 3rd out is made, they have no reason to continue running, so you'll never really know.
The rules make it easy for us in just about every case. If the 3rd out is made on a batter runner before they reach first, or on a forced runner, no runs can score. In any other case, runs that happen before the 3rd out count. (And a polite request for the umpire lawyers to not confuse the situations with extraneous info that doesn't apply to OP's situation! Please!?!?! :) ) |
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You aren't the first lifelong baseball lover who doesn't know how it is as opposed to the logic they want it to be. Umpires go with how it is, not how the logic goes. My son (a coach) and I get into some interesting discussions! Rita |
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I can't go as many years as Ozzy, but I can't recall an F6 who tagged the runner in this situation, they just throw the ball to 1b for the 3rd out that prevents any runs from scoring. Seems strange that R3 would score before the tag if it did happen though.
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How are you getting a put out in your second scenario BBlom? If I'm assuming nothing crazy happens on a bases loaded walk?
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JJ |
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In the rules, the advantageous fourth out is only mentioned as resulting from the appeal of a baserunning error. Various interpretations stretch that to include an out made on the B/R before he reaches 1st base (you would think it would also apply to a forced runner but none of the interps addresses that). It doesn't make sense to me (or Carl), but that's the way it is. |
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