"Selling" Safe Call on Missed Bag during DP

[martynva]

4th Inning of District Final. Visitors up 1-0. Home has R1, 1 out. (Playoffs so we are working 3-man, I am in C Modified). Batter hits perfect DP ball to F-4. Flips to F-6 who catches ball with right foot 12" short of 2B, strides over the base, lands on other foot about 18" past base and fires to 1B for what everyone thinks is inning ending DP. I see that he clearly never touched 2B, Stand Tall and signal SAFE Twice while Yelling "Safe, He's Safe". Runner ends up on 3B. Coach asks for Time and comes out to discuss (very politely I must admit). I explain that F-6 never came within a foot of the base. Best the coach can come up with is "That's a great baseball play, and in a game this important, you need to give him that out" I disagree, and eventually the game goes on. Runner is stranded and Visitors win 2-0.

Post game: I explain to Crew Chief that I'm 100% sure I got it right. He was concentrating on following ball to very close play at 1B so he had no input on my call. He said if I was sure, I should never give the out on "Neighborhood Play" Subsequent email said he spoke to several friends in attendance who all agreed that F6 missed 2B, but said in may Rating that I "should have sold it better".

My thought is that the only way I could have really SOLD it was to continue SAFING until well after the call at 1B. (Probably at least 6-8 times?). Is this what I should have done? Any other thoughts?

P.S. If I had thought of it, I'd have told the Coach that "the league paid for three umpires to ensure we got that play right .... and I did." Truth be known, had it been 2-Man where I was in C and had to follow the play to 1B, it would have been harder to see the footwork. Who knows?

[lawump]

"Safe! Safe! You're off the bag!"

At the same time, give a big, emphatic sweeping motion with both arms.

[DG]

Good call, safe twice seems sufficient to me.

[Forest Ump]

I like Lawump's idea. I would have done it this way also.

Originally Posted by martynva

P.S. If I had thought of it, I'd have told the Coach that "the league paid for three umpires to ensure we got that play right .... and I did." Truth be known, had it been 2-Man where I was in C and had to follow the play to 1B, it would have been harder to see the footwork. Who knows?

You would have done yourself a disservice had you said this. It would have been condesending and smug. Especially considering that the coach talked to you in a respectful way.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Forest Ump

I like Lawump's idea. I would have done it this way also.




You would have done yourself a disservice had you said this. It would have been condesending and smug. Especially considering that the coach talked to you in a respectful way.

I don't view ""That's a great baseball play, and in a game this important, you need to give him that out"" as being particularly respectful.

[David B]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I don't view ""That's a great baseball play, and in a game this important, you need to give him that out"" as being particularly respectful.

I agree with that interpretation - basically he was asking you to "cheat" for his team, that's disrespectful.

Also, PU should be watching this play also for an possible illegal slide - don't know what's he was watching for at 1B - there is an umpire there for the call.

Thanks
David

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by David B

I agree with that interpretation - basically he was asking you to "cheat" for his team, that's disrespectful.

Also, PU should be watching this play also for an possible illegal slide - don't know what's he was watching for at 1B - there is an umpire there for the call.

Thanks
David

U3 can get the illegal slide -- PU can help with pulled foot or swipe tag (even though the chances are less for this with U1 in A) or interference by BR or ...

[David B]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

U3 can get the illegal slide -- PU can help with pulled foot or swipe tag (even though the chances are less for this with U1 in A) or interference by BR or ...

I agree with your points there Bob that is good coverage issues for the PU, but you can be in position for that and also be watching the play at 2B was my point.

I was just responding to the OP where he said the PU said he didn't see the play etc.,

Thanks
David

[Forest Ump]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I don't view ""That's a great baseball play, and in a game this important, you need to give him that out"" as being particularly respectful.

I was concentrating on this; He said, "Coach asks for Time and comes out to discuss (very politely I must admit). " Even with that remark you pointed out, there is no need to "one up him" with a smart a$$ come back. It's not professional.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Forest Ump

I Even with that remark you pointed out, there is no need to "one up him" with a smart a$$ come back. It's not professional.

I agree with that part.

[CT1]

I'm gonna stir the pot on this one.

On such a play, where the middle infielder "catches ball with right foot 12" short of 2B, strides over the base, lands on other foot about 18" past base", I'm going to have an out. F6 hasn't gained any advantage, although his technique leaves something to be desired. And, as the OP points out, in a 2-man crew it's unlikely that U1 would even see this.

If he catches the ball *after* stepping over the base, I have no problem with the "safe" call.

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by CT1

I'm gonna stir the pot on this one.

On such a play, where the middle infielder "catches ball with right foot 12" short of 2B, strides over the base, lands on other foot about 18" past base", I'm going to have an out. F6 hasn't gained any advantage, although his technique leaves something to be desired. And, as the OP points out, in a 2-man crew it's unlikely that U1 would even see this.

If he catches the ball *after* stepping over the base, I have no problem with the "safe" call.

CT1, Suppose a BR hits a home run and misses 2B by 12". The defense sees him miss the base and properly appeals. Are you going to call the BR safe or out? Same distance involved.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by CT1

And, as the OP points out, in a 2-man crew it's unlikely that U1 would even see this.

I disagree on that point. U1 (2-person) shouldn't turn until the throw is released and that's plenty of time to see that the base wasn't touched by this much.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by martynva

4th Inning of District Final. Visitors up 1-0. Home has R1, 1 out. (Playoffs so we are working 3-man, I am in C Modified). Batter hits perfect DP ball to F-4. Flips to F-6 who catches ball with right foot 12" short of 2B, strides over the base, lands on other foot about 18" past base and fires to 1B for what everyone thinks is inning ending DP. I see that he clearly never touched 2B, Stand Tall and signal SAFE Twice while Yelling "Safe, He's Safe". Runner ends up on 3B. ......

I assume that the players are driven to the games by their mommies, right? Because if you don't call this out in games where players shave and have girlfriends, you are going to have real problems!

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I assume that the players are driven to the games by their mommies, right? Because if you don't call this out in games where players shave and have girlfriends, you are going to have real problems!

Ahhh, a neighborhood play supporter. Gotta love us old-school types.