"Selling" Safe Call on Missed Bag during DP

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by martynva

"That's a great baseball play, and in a game this important, you need to give him that out"

Missing a base is never a great baseball play.

"should have sold it better".

The wave of the arms would have done this for you.

P.S. If I had thought of it, I'd have told the Coach that "the league paid for three umpires to ensure we got that play right .... and I did."

Whether in 1, 2, or 3 man, NEVER EVER mention anything about who paid for how many umpires. NEVER.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CT1

On such a play, where the middle infielder "catches ball with right foot 12" short of 2B, strides over the base, lands on other foot about 18" past base", I'm going to have an out.

That's really too bad. Feel free to call it that way when you make the show. Until then, your superiors at the highest levels of both OBR and FED have clearly told us not to call the out on a neighborhood play like this one.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by David B

I agree with that interpretation - basically he was asking you to "cheat" for his team, that's disrespectful.

Also, PU should be watching this play also for an possible illegal slide - don't know what's he was watching for at 1B - there is an umpire there for the call.

Thanks
David

In a 3-man crew? The PU was exactly where he was supposed to be -- trailing the batter-runner. U3 has everything at second since he does not have to turn to make a call at first.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I assume that the players are driven to the games by their mommies, right? Because if you don't call this out in games where players shave and have girlfriends, you are going to have real problems!

Those days are long over at every level I work, including NCAA baseball.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

That's really too bad. Feel free to call it that way when you make the show. Until then, your superiors at the highest levels of both OBR and FED have clearly told us not to call the out on a neighborhood play like this one.

In the typical old-school "neighborhood" play, F6 glides *behind* the bag (not touching it) to avoid the sliding R1. And I agree that *that* play is what has gone by the wayside.

That's not what I envision happening here: F6 stepped directly *over* the bag, and as such was still exposed to R1.

Again, if F6 receives the throw *after* stepping over the base, I've got a "safe".

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by martynva

Home has R1, 1 out. (Playoffs so we are working 3-man, I am in C Modified).

As a mechanics aside, most manuals currently have you in B Modified with R1 only, unless you have a LH batter in NCAA.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CT1

In the typical old-school "neighborhood" play, F6 glides *behind* the bag (not touching it) to avoid the sliding R1. And I agree that *that* play is what has gone by the wayside.

That's not what I envision happening here: F6 stepped directly *over* the bag, and as such was still exposed to R1.

Again, if F6 receives the throw *after* stepping over the base, I've got a "safe".

Exposure to a runner has nothing to do with anything. Both organizations have been quite clear that you need to touch a base to get a force out, even on the turn of a double play.

[REFANDUMP]

I have a couple of questions regarding this type of play.

1) Why do we need to allow a "neighborhood" type double play under any rulesets that have slide rules ?? The middle infielders have plenty of options to avoid incoming baserunners. I allow some leeway under OBR, if a fielder is protecting himself.


2) If this fielder missed the base by as much as claimed here, how do you sell your call to the head coach, who is probably standing in the 3rd base coaching box 100 feet away with a clear view of the play ?? Especially when you're probably 10 to 15 feet away from it. Why be there if you're not going to call something so obvious to everyone in the stadium ??

In my opinion, you handled this play correctly. I probably would have called "Safe, no bag" and signaled multiple times like you did.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

Why do we need to allow a "neighborhood" type double play under any rulesets that have slide rules ??

We don't.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

2) If this fielder missed the base by as much as claimed here, how do you sell your call to the head coach, who is probably standing in the 3rd base coaching box 100 feet away with a clear view of the play ??

Ummm, why would you need to sell a Safe call on a runner to the third base coach?

[REFANDUMP]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Ummm, why would you need to sell a Safe call on a runner to the third base coach?

Did you miss the part about it potentially being the HEAD COACH !!!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

Did you miss the part about it potentially being the HEAD COACH !!!

I think the question is ... why do we need to sell the call to a guy you just said had a very clear view of the play? And why would the 3BC need to be sold that his runner was SAFE... he's certainly not going to complain about it.

[REFANDUMP]

I obviously have confused some people here. I'm addressing those who think an "out" call is the correct call on these types of plays. You have to sell that "out" call to the head coach who had a clear view of the play.

[PeteBooth]

Says Who

Also, don't you know by now all coaches think they have a clear view of the play.

Pete Booth

[David B]

Originally Posted by Rich

In a 3-man crew? The PU was exactly where he was supposed to be -- trailing the batter-runner. U3 has everything at second since he does not have to turn to make a call at first.

Rich,

I agree he's where he's supposed to be, but I don't agree that from that same position he can't see the slide at second base. In his comments he basically said he wasn't watching the play - that is what I have issue with.

Thanks
David