Obstruction?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

That's the guideline that is taught ... and discussed here.

If there was no ATR (and honestly, i don't think there should be!), then if the runner slowed or deviated before the instant that the ball was caught, it would be OBS. The idea of ATR is to allow the fielder to be in the runner's path once the ball is closer than the runner, instead of having to wait until after it's caught to move into the runner's path. (And I'd be fine if that part was done away with and they DID have to wait until they had possession before moving into the path!)

And, quite frankly, I think they should go back to the old rule.

The pro (minor league) interpretation of about to receive is the distance from the skin of the cutout at home to the plate - about 13 feet. Sounds reasonable enough to me.

[DG]

"about to receive" not relevant in FED and NCAA, you either have the ball or you don't if you are in the runner's path.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by DG

"about to receive" not relevant in FED and NCAA, you either have the ball or you don't if you are in the runner's path.

This is not correct for NCAA. A fielder "in the act of fielding the ball" is not guilty of obstruction (except on a pickoff).

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

This is not correct for NCAA. A fielder "in the act of fielding the ball" is not guilty of obstruction (except on a pickoff).

Thank you for pointing that out.

Great rotation by U1.

[lawump]

Originally Posted by Rich

The pro (minor league) interpretation of about to receive is the distance from the skin of the cutout at home to the plate - about 13 feet. Sounds reasonable enough to me.

Rich, when I was in the minors, the interpretation of "about to receive" (on a play at the plate) was the distance from the pitcher's mound to home plate -- about 60 feet. They may have changed it in the decade since I left...but that is how it was taught to me at umpire school; and what I used in my pro games without argument.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by lawump

Rich, when I was in the minors, the interpretation of "about to receive" (on a play at the plate) was the distance from the pitcher's mound to home plate -- about 60 feet. They may have changed it in the decade since I left...but that is how it was taught to me at umpire school; and what I used in my pro games without argument.

I'm reading it from some recent instructions, I'm guessing more recent than yours -- reported by Carl in the BRD. They could've changed since then.

[dash_riprock]

For NCAA, it means "the ball is in flight [sic] directly toward and near enough to the fielder so he must occupy his position to receive the throw." That seems to be consistent with lawumps pro interp.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

For NCAA, it means "the ball is in flight [sic] directly toward and near enough to the fielder so he must occupy his position to receive the throw." That seems to be consistent with lawumps pro interp.

I found the source of the interp in the BRD -- it's a phone conversation between Carl and Fitzpatrick in 2001.

Take it or leave it. Doesn't much matter to me -- it's all judgment of the umpire anyway.

[DG]

Thanks all, I stand corrected. I went back the rule books and the 2010 NCAA rule book said you had to have the ball. The 2011-2012 book added the words about in act of receiving and it was listed in the front of the book as a change. So NCAA and OBR are the same, FED different.

[thumpferee]

Originally Posted by DG

So NCAA and OBR are the same, FED different.

Who woulda guessed that

[CT1]

IIRC, FED made their change mainly because coaches were teaching fielders to "drop a knee" before receiving a throw on pickoff plays, thus blocking the runner off the bag.

Rather than make a specific exception to their existing OBS ruie, they chose to apply it universally to all plays.

Tim C. may have further insight.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by CT1

IIRC, FED made their change mainly because coaches were teaching fielders to "drop a knee" before receiving a throw on pickoff plays, thus blocking the runner off the bag.

Rather than make a specific exception to their existing OBS ruie, they chose to apply it universally to all plays.

Tim C. may have further insight.

that was the NCAA rationale. Then, when they realized the folly of having it on all plays, they went back to the OBR, and added the exception for dropping the knee on a pickoff.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by DG

"about to receive" not relevant in FED

True

and NCAA.

False

[lawump]

Originally Posted by Rich

I found the source of the interp in the BRD -- it's a phone conversation between Carl and Fitzpatrick in 2001.

Take it or leave it. Doesn't much matter to me -- it's all judgment of the umpire anyway.

I think some of Mr. Fitzpatrick's co-workers at PBUC would have disagreed at that time...but at least you found something in print!

Thanks!

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Thank you for pointing that out.

Great rotation by U1.

What makes a very basic textbook rotation "great"?

IMO, that is the dumbest rotation in the mechanics manual. What is so difficult, with the bases empty and an obvious extra-base hit in either 3-man or 4-man, with U1 entering the diamond and taking the plays on the B/R at 1st and 2nd, and U3 and PU both staying home?

All levels (pro, NCAA, FED) have umpires running all over the place for no good reason. If you're U1 and can't be at 2nd base from A in advance of the runner, retire.