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-   -   Pickoff Attempt At 2nd - Balk? (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/94950-pickoff-attempt-2nd-balk.html)

bluehair Wed May 08, 2013 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by umpjim (Post 893264)
Had a college coach show me a thing he taught his pitchers. In the set, hands together, F1 would have a slow subtle hand break a moment before the pivot and step to 2B. He said it was rarely caught.

Also there is the simultaneous step off and backwards throw to 2B that I'm starting to see more of. I balk that.
What advantage did F1 gain by "a slow subtle hand break a moment before the pivot"? What was the coach teaching". I don't get it.

We have a guy in our chapter who has a reputation of using his active imagination when calling balks...don't be that guy. But if you've got to be that guy, don't be my partner.

MD Longhorn Wed May 08, 2013 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluehair (Post 893267)
What advantage did F1 gain by "a slow subtle hand break a moment before the pivot"? What was the coach teaching". I don't get it.
I agree completely. No reward, all risk... not a healthy idea.

jicecone Wed May 08, 2013 01:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by umpjim (Post 893264)
Had a college coach show me a thing he taught his pitchers. In the set, hands together, F1 would have a slow subtle hand break a moment before the pivot and step to 2B. He said it was rarely caught.

Also there is the simultaneous step off and backwards throw to 2B that I'm starting to see more of. I balk that.
:confused: I did about 33 HS Var this year and called 5-6 Balks. 3 were associated with the Hybrid pitching stance. The others were just obvious. How many do you call in a season if you are analizing to such minute detail?

umpjim Wed May 08, 2013 01:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluehair (Post 893267)
What advantage did F1 gain by "a slow subtle hand break a moment before the pivot"? What was the coach teaching". I don't get it.

We have a guy in our chapter who has a reputation of using his active imagination when calling balks...don't be that guy. But if you've got to be that guy, don't be my partner.
He said the runner would think the pitcher was starting to go home and would be leaning. He said they were pretty successful with the move.

bob jenkins Wed May 08, 2013 01:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by umpjim (Post 893264)
Also there is the simultaneous step off and backwards throw to 2B that I'm starting to see more of. I balk that.
Where do they get this?

umpjim Wed May 08, 2013 01:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 893291)
Where do they get this?
Don't know but I'm seeing it occasionally. Can't be from the pros.

Steven Tyler Wed May 08, 2013 11:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by umpjim (Post 893294)
Don't know but I'm seeing it occasionally. Can't be from the pros.
You work college ball, and the move you described baffles you?

umpjim Thu May 09, 2013 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Tyler (Post 893358)
You work college ball, and the move you described baffles you?
I work very little college, JUCO, non conference, but I don't think you are picturing what I have described.

MD Longhorn Thu May 09, 2013 11:42am
Can't help but chuckle.

So what do you do when "they" don't realize they are "they" and keep on acting like "they" act?

RPatrino Thu May 09, 2013 01:30pm
We have met the enemy and they is us.

umpjim Thu May 09, 2013 02:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 893386)
Can't help but chuckle.

So what do you do when "they" don't realize they are "they" and keep on acting like "they" act?
So your saying that I'm the "they" in Bob's post. That went over my head.
In any case I'm saying that there are balks that can be called with R2 and do not violate the IITBTSB rule of thumb.
Do you balk a pitcher that hangs everything in his look back to 2B in his delivery?

MD Longhorn Thu May 09, 2013 03:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by umpjim (Post 893404)
So your saying that I'm the "they" in Bob's post. That went over my head.
No worries... :)
Quote:
In any case I'm saying that there are balks that can be called with R2 and do not violate the IITBTSB rule of thumb.
We hear you saying that.
Quote:
Do you balk a pitcher that hangs everything in his look back to 2B in his delivery?
Tell me what he actually does and what rule he breaks. I'm not getting a picture from that description at all. Define "hangs everything" and "delivery" in the context of what you're actually asking.

bluehair Thu May 09, 2013 04:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by umpjim (Post 893404)
So your saying that I'm the "they" in Bob's post. That went over my head.
In any case I'm saying that there are balks that can be called with R2 and do not violate the IITBTSB rule of thumb.
Do you balk a pitcher that hangs everything in his look back to 2B in his delivery?
Although this video is of Luis Tiant's wind-up, his set delivery "hangs everything" just like his windup with R2. Nobody balked el Tiant.

umpjim Thu May 09, 2013 04:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluehair (Post 893418)
Although this video is of Luis Tiant's wind-up, his set delivery "hangs everything" just like his windup with R2. Nobody balked el Tiant.
I wouldn't either. But if he paused while in the look back to 2B and nothing was moving I would balk it.

MD Longhorn Fri May 10, 2013 08:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by umpjim (Post 893424)
I wouldn't either. But if he paused while in the look back to 2B and nothing was moving I would balk it.
For breaking what rule, exactly?


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