BTW: You can throw to an unoccupied if it's to make a play. As the runner was stealing a throw to 3B would be legal.

As Rich stated, you can throw to an unoccupied base for the purpose of making a play. Many people don't read the second part of the rule.

Isn't there an obstruction as Segura is returning to 2nd base? And, doesn't Segura get tagged while off the base?

Still a bit confussed
 

Ok, I reread the rule on the pitcher disengaging (break) from the plate:

I didn't see the pitcher do either. But I also reread the unoccupied base rule:

So if the runner is stealing you may just step and throw to the base that he is going to? You don't have to 'break' or disengage? Interesting I always thought that you had to...

I also checked the rule on running bases in reverse order:
So then going all the way back to one was actually legal? Wow!

Ignorant of which rule?

Rita

The rule that says he is entitled to 2nd base and is not out (correctly signaled by U2).

Ok, now that I saw the play:

1. There is no balk on the pitcher. He did step toward second and did not throw, then disengaged and threw to third, all of which is legal.

2. There was no obstruction on F4. He backpedalled and got out of Segura's way at the last second.

3. How is Braun not out at second as soon as Segura slides back into the bag? Isn't Braun physically past Segura?

And Rich, there was at least one pitch delivered to Braun after Segura stole second, for Ball Four that put Braun on first (I assume only one pitch; there could have been more fouled off before the walk that the video replay didn't show). So are you still advocating that Segura can legally return to first base?

For the life of me, I don't understand how this crew allowed this to happen.

There are several rules to consider when looking for support on this situation. Check out this link below and it will walk you through the the scenarios ...

Solution for Case Play 2013-03: Segura as R2 Steals First | Close Call Sports and the Umpire Ejection Fantasy League

and it also has a video clip ....

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | CHC@MIL: Segura's wacky baserunning does not end well - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

R1 is not guilty of passing preceding runner R2 as simultaneous occupation is not passing.

He didn't do either. But, he did make a (legal) move to second and as part of that he came off the rubber so he's now an infielder and can throw anywhere.



A common myth that really shouldn't be a myth.

I don't think 7.08 is the relevant rule. I think it's 7.01

To be out for passing you have to be ENTIRELY past the runner. Fully and completely. Until just after Braun is tagged, he was never fully and entirely past Segura's foot.

That said, look at 0:28 on the video. After Braun is tagged, Segura is OFF the base and tagged again.

I don't believe this was illegal. Describe the part of 7.01 to us that leads you to believe he can't return to first.

It is impossible for both to be touching the base in this way and rule that one has passed the other.

7.01 comment - once the pitcher takes his position R2 has title to second base and can't return to first. He can't go from being an R2 to being an R1.

I don't consider J/R gospel in any way, but in this case I think they're right. Segura should be called out pretty quickly once he heads back to first base.

Yes ... but Segura is no longer touching the bag about a half second after Braun was tagged. Had Braun not been tagged, he would have been "past Segura" about a half second later.

A quote that is not exactly a quote... and the part that is not exactly a quote is the part I would disagree with - you've inferred something and then included it in the quote.

For the record: First ... Comments are meant to explain the rules, and not augment or change them. Second - many who read this (including the site referenced above) believe this comment is not meant to apply once the pitcher steps off.

More fundamentally, though... the RULE does not state in any manner that the runner cannot, in the normal course of play (for instance, while avoiding a player trying to tag him) move backward beyond a base he is "entitled to". The comment leads one to believe he cannot do this with the ball on the mound. I don't see how one can apply this rule or comment to the OP.

(Further ... apparently neither does MLB!)

Who are the folks that posted this on the UEFL website? I seriously doubt they are authoritative interpreters of the rules.

I go back to the scenario I posed earlier to Rich Ives: B1 could hit a clean double, and then B2 and B3 strike out. R2 erroneously thinks there are three outs, so he starts jogging to his dugout on the first base side. He is informed more than halfway to first by his base coach that there are only two outs. I can't imagine that the rules would allow him to hightail it to first base to avoid the out.

I still feel the Comment in 7.01 is to be interpreted as, "Once the pitcher assumes the rubber, a runner cannot return." I don't believe the rules makers intended it to apply at any time after the next pitch or play from when the runner first obtains the advanced base.

Besides, how would you score it? "Runner steals second and then returns to first base one pitch later due to...what??" And he was credited with a steal of second, and a caught stealing of second, during the same on-base period!