Ground rules question

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Out of play is out of play. Chasing after it does not keep it live.

BTW the outfielder signal just means he thinks the ball is out of play. Only the umpire can actually declare the ball out of play. Their pre-game did not mean that they couldn't declare the ball put of play - only that it should be treated that way until a determination could be made.

You were right to keep the runner going just in case the ball was not out of play.

Sounds like it was caled correctly.

I agree with Rich on this one. I make it a point at the plate conference to emphasize the out of play areas on fields like this. My partner and I try to do our best to view the ball and make the call as soon as possible.

[Rich]

I cringe when people say "if the player keeps playing it, it's live..."

No, it's not -- if it's dead, it's dead. If we can't tell, we may use the fielder digging it out of a place as an indicator that it isn't lodged or isn't out of play, but out of play is out of play and if we can see it from where we are, we're calling it accordingly.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Rich

I cringe when people say "if the player keeps playing it, it's live..."

Are those the same guys who see the need to itemize all twenty-nine places in the fence where a ball might possibly leave the field of play?

[MD Longhorn]

I find it ironic that one person is smacked down for hurrying out to check out a live ball in the outfield when the fielder puts his hands up, and another is smacked down for saying that if the fielder is playing it, it's live. Can't really smack down both of these, can we?

Personally, if a fielder throws up his hands and I cannot determine the ball's status from where I already am, I'm going out. The whole reason we go out is to make an accurate ruling on something we could not rule accurately on from the infield --- so it is completely consistent with that to go immediately check it out when this happens. It may very well be that one poster was correct that 99/100 of these will indeed be ruled blocked/stuck/dead/whatever. But I see no purpose in waiting to go out, whether it's the 99 of 100 or the 1 of 100.

I also agree that if the player is playing it, I'm assuming it's playable - and sticking with my "normal" responsibilities. I actually find it rather bizarre that Rich had a problem with that... are you suggesting that you would head out to the outfield to check it out even if the outfielder is playing the ball? Seems odd.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I also agree that if the player is playing it, I'm assuming it's playable - and sticking with my "normal" responsibilities. I actually find it rather bizarre that Rich had a problem with that... are you suggesting that you would head out to the outfield to check it out even if the outfielder is playing the ball? Seems odd.

That's not what he's talking about. He's talking about the morons who point out the dead-ball areas (e.g., a bullpen bench) where a ball is reachable, but not easily, or out-of-play areas with readily discernible demarcation lines. They utter nonsense like, "If the ball goes in there, have the players throw up their hands and we'll kill it, but if they play it, we're keeping it live." If you don't clearly see the ball in one of those areas, a player continuing to play it is certainly evidence that the ball remained in live-ball territory.

If you do clearly see the ball in a dead-ball area, the play should be killed whether or not the defense attempts to keep playing, and dingbat umpires shouldn't advise otherwise at the plate meeting.

That's all he's saying.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Publius

If you do clearly see the ball in a dead-ball area, the play should be killed whether or not the defense attempts to keep playing, and dingbat umpires shouldn't advise otherwise at the plate meeting.

That's all he's saying.

Ah, understood. And agreed.