2013 Ejection Thread

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Publius

Agreed. I have on multiple occasions explained an ejection with, "When I said 'Enough!' did you think I didn't mean it?"

If a pitcher throws at a batter's head and you want to warn both benches, do you say "that's enough?"

How about a pitcher who takes 40 seconds to deliver a pitch. Same thing?

When you say 'that's enough' do you record it as a warning?

I can understand using the phrase as a way to tell the coach he's getting to the edge, but I do not consider it an official warning. Neither does my assignor.

[Publius]

It's "a" warning. It's not the only warning.

When a center fielder one-hands a can of corn, do you yell, "THAT'S A CATCH! CATCH!!" the way you might when an infielder lays out and picks one two inches off the dirt?

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Publius

It's "a" warning. It's not the only warning.

To you it is, but maybe not to the coach. When he is asked if he was warned before he was ejected (and he likely will be), and the only thing you said to him was "that's enough," there is a good chance his answer will be no, and he will believe it to be true. The word warning is all over the rules (and every ejection report form I have ever seen). If you want to leave no doubt you are issuing a warning, use the word, and write down to whom, and when the warning was issued.

When a center fielder one-hands a can of corn, do you yell, "THAT'S A CATCH! CATCH!!" the way you might when an infielder lays out and picks one two inches off the dirt?

Not even close to being analogous. Let's keep it real.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

To you it is, but maybe not to the coach. When he is asked if he was warned before he was ejected (and he likely will be), and the only thing you said to him was "that's enough," there is a good chance his answer will be no, and he will believe it to be true.

That may be your experience; it has never been mine. Maybe those eastern coaches aren't as perceptive as coaches in other parts of the country.

When I say it (always "ENOUGH!"; never "That's enough!"), it's not as an aside; everybody hears it and better than 95% of the time I don't hear another word, so somebody understands it. Guys who say they don't recognize it as a warning are either inexperienced, stupid, or trying to play the umpire. A few guys have needed two tries to pick up on it, but I don't recall anyone ever needing three.

Not every situation calls for an official (i.e., recorded) warning. When one does, I give one. Some guy chirping about a pitch usually doesn't rise to that level.

I can recognize an appeal play even when nobody uses the word "appeal," too.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Publius

Not every situation calls for an official (i.e., recorded) warning. When one does, I give one.

Agreed.

Some guy chirping about a pitch usually doesn't rise to that level.

We agree on this too. "ENOUGH!" would be an appropriate unofficial warning here.

I can recognize an appeal play even when nobody uses the word "appeal," too.

Not analogous. Most appeals do not entail a verbal exchange. Warnings, official or otherwise, always do.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

To you it is, but maybe not to the coach. When he is asked if he was warned before he was ejected (and he likely will be), and the only thing you said to him was "that's enough," there is a good chance his answer will be no, and he will believe it to be true. The word warning is all over the rules (and every ejection report form I have ever seen). If you want to leave no doubt you are issuing a warning, use the word, and write down to whom, and when the warning was issued......

Let it go, Dash. We are old school and the newer guys don't want to listen. Let them find out the hard way, when they loose a protest, or look like total a$$es in a playoff game, or when their association tells them that because they are total f*ck up's, they are loosing their Varsity schedule.

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Let it go, Dash. We are old school and the newer guys don't want to listen. Let them find out the hard way, when they loose a protest, or look like total a$$es in a playoff game, or when their association tells them that because they are total f*ck up's, they are loosing their Varsity schedule.

I think you've got your schools mixed up. Those that believe that "That's enough" is a warning are from the old school. In the old school, if you didn't realize that "That's Enough" was a warning then you were stupid and probably deserved the EJ that you got.

New schools is specifically using the word "Warning" in your warning. Law-savey coach can hide behind the lack of the word "warning" to deny that he was warned and didn't deserve the EJ that he got.

You've gotta go new school if you want to work the big games...that's why sightngs of Lance Cokalinski are so rare.

[Welpe]

OK that's enough, tone it down.

[dash_riprock]

From the NCAA's online ejection/suspension report (all divisions):

"If a warning was issued, state how each warning was issued and the reaction of anyone warned."

Although it does not state specifically that the word "warning" is required, the NCAA is apparently sensitive to the possibility that the warned individual was unaware a warning had been issued to him. By using the word warning and stopping the game to write it down, that possibility is eliminated.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

I was really only trying to start a fun thread about ejections, and the fact I had one my first game of the year.

All due respect, SCB, I never even remotely came close to that conclusion from your OP. Like most others here, I thought you wanted our opinion on how you handled the situation.

FWIW, I haven't come close to an ejection in the two games I've umpired so far this year. Both were NCAA softball games, in 36-degree weather with intermittent snow. That's all we've had up here for now; high schools are just starting their scrimmage games.

I can't wait until I leave for my eventual retirement location in Charleston, SC...

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

First HS game of the season this past Friday night, first ejection of the season. Had to help a batter to the bench after he mouthed off a second time, after a warning, about a called third strike:

Me: "Strike three!", accompanied by standard punch out mechanic.
Player (after taking a couple of steps toward dugout, then turning around): "Are you kidding?!?"
Me: "No, it was strike three. Go back to the bench unless you want to sit the rest of the game."
Player: (after taking a couple more steps toward dugout, then turning around): "Are you serious?!?"
Me (after using standard ejection mechanic): "Yes, yes I am."

I thought I was more than equitable with the warning. YMMV.

Personal opinion. Bad ejection due to quick hook and lack of game management.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Welpe

OK that's enough, tone it down.

Tone what down?

All I'm reading is an exchange of philosophies. Who do you think is coming close to crossing the line, and why?

[Welpe]

We're fine, it has been handled. Continue on.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

I'm quite comfortable with how I handled the situation. Thanks.

That's really too bad. Feel free to never get better. YMMV.

[scarolinablue]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

That's really too bad. Feel free to never get better. YMMV.

I try to get better all the time. My goal this year is to be UIC for the state final - I've worked on a finals crew three of the past four seasons. That's why I occasionally participate and frequently read online forums - there's generally good stuff here when there isn't petty personal sniping going on.

I wasn't looking for advice on this one, but really do appreciate the input. My partner, who is the president of our association, said he'd have done the same thing. The state association upheld the ejection. Some of you will say that doesn't necessarily justify it, but it suits me.

I find it incredible that many of you would give a kid not one, but TWO opportunities to openly question your called third strike. PERHAPS (and that's a stretch) I "baited" him, but I don't think so, given that his comments were loud enough for the stands to hear, but my reply was not. I've not found in FED rules where we are required to warn players, yet I did, albeit subtly and, in your opinion, a "baiting" manner. Since you weren't there, I'll go with my partner's opinion. You didn't hear the tone of voice he used, or the fact he turned around a SECOND time. Maybe he just rubbed me the wrong way, but I don't think so. I really just felt he was a little loud in questioning the call, and the fact he did it a second time crossed my line.

I don't look for ejections. This was my seventh that I recall in 11 years of FED ball. Three for malicious contact, two for fighting, and two for unsportsmanlike conduct toward an official - this was the first directed at me, the other, about three years ago, was directed at my partner containing the words "You" and a four-letter word with a colorful adverb preceding.

Nobody answered this question: "What level of back talk do you accept when the second, third, and fourth players spout off? Where do you draw the line?" I genuinely would be interested to gather opinions here. I figure most of you will say tell the coach to handle it - that's my usual course of events if it's just a comment or two from the bench or a batter.