Catcher's Obstruction (Interference)

[ozzy6900]

R2 & R3 with 1-0 on the batter, catcher obstructs the batter's swing. Batter hits the ball down the 1st base line. The PU immediatly signals, points and calls "that's obstruction". The ball rolls into foul territory where it is touched by the pitcher. The catcher is on his knees holding what ends up being a set of broken fingers (so the obstruction is quite obvious). Place the runners and if necessary the batter.

This happened in a 16U game this weekend.

[bluduc]

Interference, R2, R3 stay, batter awarded to first. Delayed dead ball.

Manager may take results of the play. In this case he will
take the award, (well we think).

[scottk_61]

Originally posted by bluduc
Interference, R2, R3 stay, batter awarded to first. Delayed dead ball.

Manager may take results of the play. In this case he will
take the award, (well we think).

Shouldn't that be batter awarded first and the runners are advanced one base?
Catcher's obstruction is a delayed dead ball, it is ignored if batter and runners advance safely one base. If they don't get the one base advance, award them.

[bluduc]

OBR 6.08.c Approved ruling:
If the catcher interferes with the batter the batter is awarded first base. If, on such interference a runner is trying to score by a steal or squeeze from third base, the ball is dead and runner on third scores and batter is awarded first base. If the catcher interferes with the batter with no runner trying to score from third on a squeeze or steal, then the ball is dead, batter is awarded first base and runners who are forced to advance, do advance. Runners not attempting to steal or not forced to advance remain on the base they occupied at the time of the interference.

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by ozzy6900
R2 & R3 with 1-0 on the batter, catcher obstructs the batter's swing. Batter hits the ball down the 1st base line. The PU immediatly signals, points and calls "that's obstruction". The ball rolls into foul territory where it is touched by the pitcher. The catcher is on his knees holding what ends up being a set of broken fingers (so the obstruction is quite obvious). Place the runners and if necessary the batter.

This happened in a 16U game this weekend.

From the call - ie. "Obstruction" not "Interference" - one might be tempted to guess that this was a FED fixture.

Assuming it was OBR and not FED, I'm almost with bluduc but not quite. The ball became FOUL, touched by the pitcher in foul territory down the 1st base line. As such there was no "play" following the interference for the manager to optionally accept. If R2 & R3 were not stealing, only the batter gets to advance on the CI award. Period.

Having said that, what R2 & R3 in their right minds would NOT be moving on this play? Surely U16's would know enough baseball to be advancing on that hit?

Hope this helps.

Cheers.

[bluduc]

Warren you are correct on the foul ball. I ***- u-me (ed) OBR.
Your reply got me thinking.
We have a definition of a squeeze in OBR. A bunt attempt which does not apply here.
When does a steal attempt begin? Is going on the batted ball a steal. Does the runner have to be going before the pitch?
At the time of the pitch? Would a big lead be considerd a steal? Does FED have such a definition?
Your views please.

[ozzy6900]

Originally posted by bluduc
Warren you are correct on the foul ball. I ***- u-me (ed) OBR.
Your reply got me thinking.
We have a definition of a squeeze in OBR. A bunt attempt which does not apply here.
When does a steal attempt begin? Is going on the batted ball a steal. Does the runner have to be going before the pitch?
At the time of the pitch? Would a big lead be considerd a steal? Does FED have such a definition?
Your views please.

FED covers it under 5-1-2b. It is a delayed dead ball and the batter is awarded 1st and forced runners advance 1 base. Runners not forced but are stealing are awarded 1 base.

Remember, the defense obstructs and the offense interfers. The catcher can only obstruct.

[Edited by ozzy6900 on Jul 22nd, 2003 at 09:48 AM]

[Rich]

In FED games only, Ozzy. In all other codes of baseball, it is referred to as catcher's INTERFERENCE. As usual, the traditional way to describe it wasn't good enough for the FED so we get another gratuitous difference.

Rich

[Bfair]

R2 and R3 remain at their bases---unless stealing on the pitch or forced to advance because of award to BR, they would not advance.

BR is sent to 1B.

Catcher is sent to ER..........



Freix

[TriggerMN]

An addendum..this is right from the NFHS case book...

Same situation happens, with R1 on third and R2 on 2nd. R2 attempts to steal 3rd base, EVEN THOUGH IT IS OCCUPIED. If catcher interference is called, R2's attempted steal gives him 3rd base (regardless of the fact that it was already occupied), which forces R1 home.

Sorta goofy, since if R1 was not stealing home and R2 is doing something stupid, he ends up being awarded for it.

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by bluduc
Warren you are correct on the foul ball. I ***- u-me (ed) OBR.
Your reply got me thinking.
We have a definition of a squeeze in OBR. A bunt attempt which does not apply here.
When does a steal attempt begin? Is going on the batted ball a steal. Does the runner have to be going before the pitch?
At the time of the pitch? Would a big lead be considerd a steal? Does FED have such a definition?
Your views please.

Although there is no written definition of the term "stealing" in OBR, the definition might be implied from a reading of OBR 10.08 dealing with stolen bases.

Basically, if the runner had begun his legitimate attempt to advance before the batter had struck the ball, that should be considered "stealing" on the pitch.

That is separate and distinct from the scorer's award of a stolen base, requiring that the runner be "...unaided by a hit, a put out, an error, a force-out, a fielder's choice, a passed ball, a wild pitch or a balk ...".

If the runner had delayed his legitimate attempt to advance until after the batter had struck the ball, that would be a hit-and-run play and should not be considered as "stealing".

Taking any "lead" - long, short or intermediate - and holding it until the ball is hit should NOT be considered a legitimate attempt to advance. [cf OBR 8.05 End Note(b) - Pro interpretation requires a "legitimate attempt to advance" before the pitcher is absolved from throwing to an unoccupied base; taking a long lead, or faking an advance and returning, would NOT qualify as a legitimate attempt to advance]

Hope this helps

Cheers

[Edited by Warren Willson on Jul 23rd, 2003 at 02:42 AM]

[bluduc]

Thanks Warren.
Section 10 is a place I don't go often. 31 years maybe 10
times. 10.08 (a) sounds good to me. "When a runner starts for the next base before the pitcher delivers the ball".
I have not called Fed ball in 10 years so I am out of loop on Fed rules. Most youth and adult ball around here play OBR.
Most problems with parents an coaches come from not knowing the the rules are not the same.
In fact many of the young umps I have used for youth league ball have played under Fed and must be retrained to call OBR. After football (Texas HS plays NCAA not Fed) I
will revisit Sec. 10 in detail.
Thanks again.

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by bluduc
Thanks Warren.
Section 10 is a place I don't go often. 31 years maybe 10
times. 10.08 (a) sounds good to me. "When a runner starts for the next base before the pitcher delivers the ball".
I have not called Fed ball in 10 years so I am out of loop on Fed rules. Most youth and adult ball around here play OBR.
Most problems with parents an coaches come from not knowing the the rules are not the same.
In fact many of the young umps I have used for youth league ball have played under Fed and must be retrained to call OBR. After football (Texas HS plays NCAA not Fed) I
will revisit Sec. 10 in detail.
Thanks again.

You're welcome, bluduc. Can't say I go to Rule 10 all that often myself. Most times it has been to point out to a mom or dad scorer that they aren't allowed to yell out about batting out of turn! It helps to know that it's there, though.

I can't believe you live in Texas but don't have a copy of Carl Childress' Baseball Rules Differences! As an Edinburg resident, Carl would be truly disappointed!

You'll find all the differences between OBR, FED and NCAA right there in one volume. Maybe you could take copies to your chapter meetings and maybe even sell 'em for a profit in the stands at your games!

Just funnin' witcha, bluduc. Again, you're welcome.

Cheers

[Bfair]

Originally posted by Warren Willson

If the runner had delayed his legitimate attempt to advance until after the batter had struck the ball, that would be a hit-and-run play and should not be considered as "stealing".
[/B]

I would agree with your assessment that a runner must be judged as attempting legitimate advance before the batter swings in order to be considered as stealing. Any action to advance initiated after the swing would be considered a result of further playing action. However, Warren, I don't think I'd agree with your assessment of the commonly referred to "hit-and-run play."

When a "hit-and-run play" occurs in the states, Warren, the runner commits to his advancement after the pitch is initiated but before the pitch is struck at. It serves little purpose to call a "hit-and-run play" and have the runner wait to see what the result of the batter's actions are. Perhaps it's different down under......

The "hit-and-run play" results in an attempt by the runner to advance little different than a steal attempt. It might more accurately be referred to a run-and-hit play. Still, the fact that the runner initiated legitimate advancement prior to the pitch is reason to award him his advance base should catcher's interference occur.


Freix

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by Bfair
...blah, blah, blah ...

Freix