NFHS Rules: Pitcher's Stances.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by maven

Many MLB pitchers use a "hybrid" stance, and it's allowed at that level with no runners on base. Cliff Lee is notorious. Here's his windup position:

It's allowed at that level with or without runners on base. Of course, the windup from that position would only be used with the appropriate runner situation. Why it's allowed is up for debate. I say current OBR wording has no free foot position restriction. Wendlestedt says that while it's not legal (which I disagree with) there is no advantage gained by the pitcher and in fact an advantage for the runner so don't penalize it.

In the future, if someone wanted to sharpshoot the current OBR wording it might present a problem. This last season a pitcher got away with a quick pitch while standing sideways and he did not come set or windup, he just rared away and threw. Pissed off the batter but no call.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by maven

Many MLB pitchers use a "hybrid" stance, and it's allowed at that level with no runners on base. Cliff Lee is notorious. Here's his windup position:

Every so often I will get a pitcher with their non-pivot a little in front of the rubber. I just let them know is it a balk (NFHS), and go about my business. This way they know it is a balk, and they don't get balked for the infraction later in the season.

I always get a little irritated when a coach or player says, "The umpire in the last game let us do it." True or not, I still don't what to hear it.

I haven't read an OBR rule book in a while, but I don't think this stance is exactly covered in it.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Every so often I will get a pitcher with their non-pivot a little in front of the rubber. I just let them know is it a balk (NFHS), and go about my business. This way they know it is a balk, and they don't get balked for the infraction later in the season.

I always get a little irritated when a coach or player says, "The umpire in the last game let us do it." True or not, I still don't what to hear it.

I haven't read an OBR rule book in a while, but I don't think this stance is exactly covered in it.

Sometimes that works, but for me I just balk it. In my experience kids don't learn anything from warnings.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Every so often I will get a pitcher with their non-pivot a little in front of the rubber. I just let them know is it a balk (NFHS), and go about my business.

Huh? What do you mean you "go about my business"? Are you not calling it a balk when you see it?

[jkumpire]

Fed goes OOO again IMO.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Huh? What do you mean you "go about my business"? Are you not calling it a balk when you see it?

Baseball is played by many players at different age levels, and many different skill levels. No, I'm not a coach, and I don't subscribe to the mainstream theorists that believe doing so is a mortal sin. I've worked with some of the best high school umpires, and they would think me an idiot to enforce it down to the very miniscule teeniest wording of the rule.

I played the game for many years at some high levels, so I believe in passing on pertinent information when possible. The ball field is like a classroom for me. I'm not sending everyone to the Principal's office. Just the way I feel about things.

[egj13]

I have definately seen this evolution of pitching form over the years. Here in MT, alot of the kids that come down from Canada use this "hybrid" pitching motion. They stand at a 45, with their pivot foot essentially already parallel with the rubber...take a quick step with the non pivot foot, kick and go. We don't balk them here (at least not with wnyone I have worked with) and I see no advantage for them nor disadvantage for the runner.

I guess someone would have to explain the disadvantage? Once they step with the non pivot they must go home...

[maven]

Originally Posted by egj13

I guess someone would have to explain the disadvantage? Once they step with the non pivot they must go home...

The advantage occurs with runners on. The position appears to be (and is in fact by rule) the set, which under FED rules permits F1 to step and throw to a base. That keeps the runner closer to the base.

When F1 is permitted to wind up from that position, he gets a better pitch out of it. That's the advantage.

If he's in the hybrid position and steps and throws to a base, will you balk him? He's legally in the set!

[egj13]

Originally Posted by maven

If he's in the hybrid position and steps and throws to a base, will you balk him? He's legally in the set!

Yes I balk him in that instance...If runners are on, I intrepret the hybrid as a set...if runners are not on I intrepret the hybrid as a windup.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by egj13

Yes I balk him in that instance...If runners are on, I intrepret the hybrid as a set...

Wait a minute. If you interpret the hybrid as a set when runners are on, why would you balk him if he then steps and throws to a base?

[egj13]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Wait a minute. If you interpret the hybrid as a set when runners are on, why would you balk him if he then steps and throws to a base?

So I went to lunch and as I was driving back eating my chicken soft taco I thought to myself..when I get back someone is going to say "wait a minute"...I got ahead of myself in my response.

If he is in Hybrid, runners on, I assume he is in set position and treat it as such...and if no one is on, I assume windup and treat is as such. However...

In thinking about this myself, if I assume he is in the set with runners on, but he lifts his non-pivot foot to start the wind-up would I balk him? or just let him go because the baserunner should steal as soon as he lifts the non-pivot anyway?

So I thouhgt about it further and I am going to have to watch this more this summer. It seems to me that the kids that use the hybrid (45 degree angle) only do so in the windup and use a more 90 degree with runners on base..but I will definately be interested to check this out this summer.

[bob jenkins]

99% of the time (now), there's no confusion. But some coaches are (or will be) teaching the pitcher to set up in this "hybrid" manner to confuse the runner and shorten the lead or get an out.

the rule change is designed to nip it in the bud.

(and also has to do with LCD umpiring, imo).

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

99% of the time (now), there's no confusion. But some coaches are (or will be) teaching the pitcher to set up in this "hybrid" manner to confuse the runner and shorten the lead or get an out.

the rule change is designed to nip it in the bud.

(and also has to do with LCD umpiring, imo).

What rule change in FED. I think it's been in the books for a while. The thing that has changed has been the impetus on enforcement in some areas. I'm not aware of coaches in my area rule cognizant enough to abuse or be abused by pushing the limit on this rule. In any case in other than OBR, if the umps or coaches are confused the rule is easily used. In OBR I do see some sharpshooting possible.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by umpjim

What rule change in FED. I think it's been in the books for a while. The thing that has changed has been the impetus on enforcement in some areas. I'm not aware of coaches in my area rule cognizant enough to abuse or be abused by pushing the limit on this rule. In any case in other than OBR, if the umps or coaches are confused the rule is easily used. In OBR I do see some sharpshooting possible.

Yes, I misspoke. Thank you for the correction.

[JaxRolo]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Today, MTD, Jr., and I received our OhioHSAA Baseball Packet which included the NFHS/Referee Preseason Guide.

There was an article in the Guide about the Pitcher's Stance. The Guide said that over the last few years pitchers have been moving to a Hybrid Stance in attempt to deceive the Runner(s). I know what the NFHS Baseball Rules say regarding the Pitcher's Stance with respect to the Windup and the Set positions. But just what does a Hybrid Stance look like? If anybody can describe one one looks like I would appreciate it. Thanks.

MTD, Sr.

Illegal Hybrid Stance